Election and Faith

[Reformed1689]

I did in my original post. Not sure what your confusion is.

The confusion is you made an opening statement, posted a verse, posted another statement, posted two more verses and then posted a John MacArthur quote with zero context for review. In short, your post told me nothing.

 

[Revmitchell]

The confusion is you made an opening statement, posted a verse, posted another statement, posted two more verses and then posted a John MacArthur quote with zero context for review. In short, your post told me nothing.

Ok let's take my original post one portion at a time.

"Everyone has a sense about God due to His great creation which leaves no one with any excuse:

Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them,because God has made it plain to them. (ESV)"

In the context of the op how do you not see that this is talking about everyone to include those who are in remote areas and have never heard the gospel?

 

[Reformed1689]

Ok let's take my original post one portion at a time.

"Everyone has a sense about God due to His great creation which leaves no one with any excuse:

Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them,because God has made it plain to them. (ESV)"

In the context of the op how do you not see that this is talking about everyone to include those who are in remote areas and have never heard the gospel?

I see it as irrelevant to the OP. Knowing God exists does not equate knowing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

You honestly believe that every person has heard the Gospel? What planet do you live on?

Before the scriptures were even completed:

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:17-18

5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1:23

25 Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal,
26 but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16

The bottom line:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55

 

[Reformed1689]

The bottom line:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55

I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make in relation to the OP.

 

[Reynolds]

Yea I am quite sure you did.

He is a staunch Calvinist. The quote you posted by him is part of his defense of Calvinism.

 

[37818]

I don't take that to mean Jesus went to Hell,

A prophecy regarding Christ's resurrection, Acts of the Apostles 2:27, ". . . Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, . . ." See Psalms 16:10.

 

[Reynolds]

I see it as irrelevant to the OP. Knowing God exists does not equate knowing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

On a side but related note, do you believe The Gospel is told in the constellations? Many old Calvinist did. I personally see significant merit to the position.

 

[Reformed1689]

On a side but related note, do you believe The Gospel is told in the constellations? Many old Calvinist did. I personally see significant merit to the position.

No I don't.

 

[loDebar]

There are none that are righteous, none that seek after God.

do your non elect have souls?

 

[Reformed1689]

do your non elect have souls?

Of course but how is that relevant?

 

[loDebar]

Of course but how is that relevant?

God created them just to send to the lake of fire ? proof verses?

 

[1689Dave]

Everyone has a sense about God due to His great creation which leaves no one with any excuse:

Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them,because God has made it plain to them. (ESV)

When men acknowledge God in their limited sense due to the general revelation from God then God will send someone with the gospel their way:

Act 17:26 From one man he made every nation of the human race to inhabit the entire earth,93 determining their set times and the fixed limits of the places where they would live,
Act 17:27 so that they would search for God and perhaps grope around for him and find him,97 though he is not far from each one of us. (Net)

"Now, here is the most important thing I’ve said yet. The sum of it is this: If they live up to that much light, and they accept that much light, God will reveal to them the full light of Jesus Christ." John MacArthur

The natural order does not provide the Name of Jesus Christ;


“And there is salvation in and through no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by and in which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 (AMP)

 

[Reformed1689]

God created them just to send to the lake of fire ? proof verses?

Romans 9:14-23 makes this pretty clear. Vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. He has mercy on who he will have mercy.

I know you may not like this. It is not an easy pill for anyone to swallow but that is what the Bible says.

 

[MB]

Ok the OP is about that not everyone has heard the Gospel.

Funny the title clearly states election and faith. You are confused about your own post. Oh Oh it's not that at all. Proof you don't know what you are talking about. Your very own statement.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Funny the title clearly states election and faith. You are confused about your own post. Oh Oh it's not that at all. Proof you don't know what you are talking about. Your very own statement.
MB

Um read the OP genius....

 

[MB]

Romans 9:14-23 makes this pretty clear. Vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. He has mercy on who he will have mercy.

I know you may not like this. It is not an easy pill for anyone to swallow but that is what the Bible says.

But context is everything remember.
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
You have based your belief of this on a question that clearly say "What if god" It does not mean God did.
MB

 

[MB]

Um read the OP genius....

You miss named the thread. Ignorance always fails
MB

 

[robycop3]

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

God is talking about SINNERS, who, not having heard of Him, do evil towards their fellow men,or deny there is a God.

Many American Indians who never directly heard of God worshipped the "Great Spirit" & acted honorably toward their fellows. Just as Scripture says, they knew instinctively there's a Supreme being who's a Spirit. While many believed that animals had spirits as well, they knew there's only one Supreme Being. Same for many isolated peoples on other continents. They instinctively knew what was right & honorable, not to commit adultery, etc. Naturally, there were evildoers among those peoples who planned war & pillage against other people, & who denied there's a God.

But JESUS knows who's who among those people, & I believe He saved those who did right without having never heard of God or His law.

 

[Calminian]

Romans 10:17 tells us that faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of Christ.....

Hearing, IOW's, is from God. God grants hearing. The "Word of God" is often a term attributed to the 2nd person of the trinity. Thus, hearing comes from Christ.

This corroborates other passages saying Christ enlightens every man.