Election and Faith

[Reformed1689]

All I can say is, just because you're confused, doesn't mean I'm being confusing. If someone wants to read things into my words, I can't be responsible for what they infer. I can only be responsible for what I say.

And you say this rather than clarifying your statements...good grief.

 

[Calminian]

And you say this rather than clarifying your statements...good grief.

I didn't realize you were asking for clarification. Please let me know what you would like clarified.

 

[Reformed1689]

I didn't realize you were asking for clarification. Please let me know what you would like clarified.

Pretty much everything you have said in this thread.

 

[MB]

Oh I definitely did not lose. And I'm not going anywhere, just not wasting time on you.

David Context does not change what Jn. 12:32 actually says. All men means exactly that All men! There is no other interpretation because of the context. You object because Christ drawing all men doesn't fit in to your little private interpretation.You claim to know scripture with out faith.The Word of God is the source of faith. The only reason you might have biblical knowledge is because you were drawn to the Word,or made to study it like me.

Before I was saved I thought all Christians were nothing more than hypocrites And I did not want to be like them. My parents required that I study scripture. I didn't do it because I wanted to. I had to memorize it and if I didn't pass there examination I had to study even more. I hated doing it at the time. I hated going to church 3 to 4 times a week. However when I was saved I thanked God for my parents doing what they did. Once you have God's word inside of you it's really is like a seed that Grows. The Holy Spirit worked hard on me because of the word and I surrendered to the Lord. I credit God's word, the Holy Spirit, and my parents for that.

All men being drawn does not mean all men are going to be saved. It means all men can be. Surrender is nothing more than stopping your rebellion.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

David Context does not change what Jn. 12:32 actually says.

No, but context guides the interpretation of what it MEANS.

All men means exactly that All men! There is no other interpretation because of the context.

Except the context shows it is referring to all types of men but Jew and Gentile. You are so hung up on the words in the one verse that you ignore the verses around it to get meaning. You cherry pic.

You object because Christ drawing all men doesn't fit in to your little private interpretation.You claim to know scripture with out faith.

No, I object because context does not allow for your position. And what in the world are you talking about claiming to know Scriipture without faith?

Once you have God's word inside of you it's really is like a seed that Grows. The Holy Spirit worked hard on me because of the word and I surrendered to the Lord. I credit God's word, the Holy Spirit, and my parents for that.

Did the Holy Spirit work hard on your because of the Word? Or did the Word work on your because of the Holy Spirit?

 

[MB]

No, but context guides the interpretation of what it MEANS.

Except the context shows it is referring to all types of men but Jew and Gentile. You are so hung up on the words in the one verse that you ignore the verses around it to get meaning. You cherry pic.

No, I object because context does not allow for your position. And what in the world are you talking about claiming to know Scriipture without faith?

Did the Holy Spirit work hard on your because of the Word? Or did the Word work on your because of the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit used the word that I had memorized to work on me. It got to the point of where i could not think of much of anything else but what it seemed to me was a focus point and conviction. The focus point was Christ. I'll finish later I have an appointment I have to keep
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

The Holy Spirit used the word that I had memorized to work on me. It got to the point of where i could not think of much of anything else but what it seemed to me was a focus point and conviction. The focus point was Christ. I'll finish later I have an appointment I have to keep
MB

Again, The Holy Spirit did not work because of the Word, the Word worked because of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Calminian]

Pretty much everything you have said in this thread.

Sorry for your frustrations. I'm explaining the best I can.

 

[utilyan]

Um, I was quoting Romans, which yes, quotes Psalms, but in a different context.

Says who?

Thats like saying its acceptable to twist and mistranslate scripture to fit new agendas. The context 100% the same. "Differ context" Thats called twisting scriptures. Paul is not twisting the scriptures.

If Paul was now introducing a new doctrine of total depravity he would have required a vision from God and the whole church would have to be in council just like it did in acts 15.

Paul is speaking to Jews and pointing out Jewish short comings in the past. The Jews know exactly what he is talking about, None of them are hinted at total depravity.

When Peter got direct message from God, He didn't run around and say well this is what God says See YOU LATER!. He had to take it to the church and have the whole thing sign off on it.

And now you want to convince us that PAUL twists a new meaning of old scripture while he is talking to Jews he is trying to convert?

No.

 

[utilyan]

Again, The Holy Spirit did not work because of the Word, the Word worked because of the Holy Spirit.

The best case for Calvinism is the most abandoned which is the direct first hand experience of being mind wiped

Where is the non-christian who studied the scriptures with no one over his shoulder freaking out at his spontaneous enlightenment.

Doesn't happen. Its christians converting to calvinism. And when we hear the conversion stories to doesn't follow the ordo salutis.

Where is the guy who ok read the bible, heard the most minimal required portion of the gospel to officially have heard the gospel. One day was minding is own buisness HATING GOD, NOT LOOKING FOR GOD ect. and then SNAP the entirety of TULIP is downloaded into his brain?

Where are the "CRADLE" Calvinist?

 

[Reformed1689]

But JESUS knows who's who among those people, & I believe He saved those who did right without having never heard of God or His law.

It astounds me that nobody else is calling out this heresy!

 

[Calminian]

... But JESUS knows who's who among those people, & I believe He saved those who did right without having never heard of God or His law.

I think we need to be careful not to make salvation about doing right.

“There is none righteous, no, not one;..."​

But I do believe that some respond to creation and the conscience by seeking, and then those who seek find. I this age, they have to find Christ. There are some interesting stories from missionaries of people who seemed to be expecting them, and received the truth eagerly.

 

[Reformed1689]

I think we need to be careful not to make salvation about doing right.

“There is none righteous, no, not one;..."​

But I do believe that some respond to creation and the conscience by seeking, and then those who seek find. I this age, they have to find Christ. There are some interesting stories from missionaries of people who seemed to be expecting them, and received the truth eagerly.

Yes, Cornelius is an example of this. But NOBODY is saved without hearing the Gospel. And I still can't believe there was no outrage that someone here stated there was.