God honors the "free will choice" of sinners to keep on rejecting jesus Christ!So human volition is an attribute of the creature?
BTW, your previous response did not address the misinterpretation I pointed out. Not really interested in chasing your rabbits.
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Election spoken of in scripture...like this-
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Right. That would be Acts 10.
God has already revealed who He is in scripture...your supposed defense is in reality....you inventing a god of your imagination. You offer no scripture, and Calvinists believe all scripture concerning God already.
Because you do not have a clear understanding of the teaching. ..you seek to attack an imaginary opponent.
The Scripture reveals that multitudes are already awaiting the White Throne judgment. ...never having heard of Jesus or the good news....Rev 19 speaks of saints in heaven praising God for His judgment.
Your theory is not found in scripture anywhere.
While the gospel is freely offered to all,the salvation from sin that results in eternal life is only to those believing, everyone believing. ..Determinism on the brain, much? Oh, I see, the Gospel is given to all, but only some can genuinely respond, so IOWs the Gospel is not a genuine promise to all it is given...
That would be the elect....The promise...is of death unto death, or life...2 cor2:14-17...perhaps your philosophical musings have caused you to not see this section of scripture.
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Can the creation argue with his creator that God is not doing what would be the right thing? can finite and limited man actually presume upon an eternal all knowing unlimited being?
Rockson
Active Member
Well it seems to me you should see the bigger picture. To the Jew first and then to the Gentile. And it still doesn't solve your dilemma being a Calvinist. They were still called to share the gospel to unbelieving cities. What for if not to demonstrate God was giving them equal opportunity?
Rockson
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That is a good question and I'd never encourage anyone to do anything like that in a disrespectful, presumptuous manner....BUT you might want to read Genesis 18:22-33
And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Gen 18:25
(My comments:There you have it. Abraham declared something shouldn't be done if God was righteous! And you might want to notice God wasn't put out with him for saying it. He doesn't rebuke him nor reprove him and doesn't say to him who are you a little human being questioning anything I do. No....he merely continues on with the conversation.
And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: (notice he didn't question God with an arrogant attitude thus the "I am but dust and ashes" next to you. You're the Almighty God but I do have sincere questions is the spirit of what he was saying) Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry,(again showing humility but pressing on with the question) and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place. Gen 18:22-33
Oh, I know that. You picked the wrong passage of scripture (Mt 10) to make your 'preach the gospel to every creature ' pitch.
Not a Calvinist.
And they were told:
11 And into whatsoever city or village ye shall enter, search out who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go forth. Mt 10
"Search out who in it is worthy". Who do you think these 'worthy ones' were BEFORE the gospel had been preached? Certainly not God hating unbelievers.
I think of Christ's words to Paul concerning the city of Corinth:
9 And the Lord said unto Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak and hold not thy peace:
10 for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to harm thee: for I have much people in this city. Acts 18
This was BEFORE Paul had got established in Corinth, God had a people there.
Sigh, I'm sorry, I know you just can't accept it, but no, those not belonging to Him do not in any way shape fashion or form share in the marvelous privileges that His elect have.
Rockson
Active Member
Nonetheless it is still preaching the gospel to every creature. To the Jewish creatures first and to the Gentile creatures second.Theo1689;n5337129 said:
Probably I'd say people who had a respect towards Jesus and had heard of his miracles and work. This Matt 10 passage had to do with as you so rightly pointed out cities and towns in Israel. Well knowledge of Jesus had become known in Israel I don't think we'd disagree on that. Such doesn't mean those town and cities within Israel had ever heard the Good News. You'll notice it says they were encouraged to search out who in those towns were worthy, and that is for the purpose of staying in their house not to be ones exclusively that they'd preach the gospel to.Theo1689;n5337129 said:
Well could be God fearing people. Acts 2 states on the day of Pentecost there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. Also it can be people who might be ripe to hear the word of God as Lydia was in 16:14. She was a 'worshiper of God' it states beforehand but still needed to hear the gospel to be saved but still nothing to say it wasn't her will yielding to God and her choosing not to resist him. When it says he has much people in this city it's no different probably then today. There's certain regions (I live in North America) which individuals have more of a propensity to worship God than other regions. They still have to use their will to accept and believe the gospel and likewise have a capacity to reject it if they felt so inclined.Theo1689;n5337129 said:
Was God right to exercise Judgement upon Sodom then, even though was not "loving them" at that time?
Men do not use their will. ...to accept anything.
God makes them willing in the day of His power...
God makes men accepted in the Beloved eph1:6
You mention in Acts 18...God had many people in the city...notice...not all.
Before the preaching. ..He knew who were His.....
Your suggestion of geographic areas where people have a propensity to worship God is without biblical merit.
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Rockson
Active Member
Or you could talk about the Judgement on the World with Noah too. There reaches a point among the affairs of men where God would no longer be good or LOVING to allow sin to continue one more moment.
Rockson
Active Member
Not at all? Didn't YOU believe the gospel? That didn't take your will?
I'd appreciate a scripture for that please. If you're quoting from Psalm 110:3 I see 27 different type translations on Bible Hub. None say God makes them willing...it says "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power" Considerable difference.
So what's that mean to you? Does that in any way demonstrate or prove because God knew by foreknowledge that certain individuals were going to be saved that must mean the message was only for them and that others couldn't have responded if they so chose?
If you claim they couldn't I'd kindly suggest that's just merely your Calvinistic mindset demanding such an end result. That passage doesn't even touch on an aspect that other people couldn't have got saved if they didn't resist. God is just encouraging Paul in his ministry this place will be fruitful.
Paul also preached in places where God wanted people saved, they were given their chance, could have taken it but resisted. Still doesn't mean they couldn't have responded.
Why not? They're called Bible belts.
Not sure I can take you serious after this post.
Bible belts???
In psalm 110:3 the people are made willing in the day of God's power....not their own.see jn 1:13.
The nt.says men have...self will.....not free will.
Go ahead show one or two verses saying free will.
You have an unbiblical description of foreknowledge. ..God knows the individuals....not their actions....whom He did foreknow rom8:29...
We are to preach to all men, not some special places where God wanted some saved.
Try and deal with the scriptures, rather than your imagination.
Rockson
Active Member
Well Icon I guess I can say I'm glad in all my posts prior you took them seriously.
Again like I said 27 translations of the NT DO NOT put down Psalm 110:3 as you have stated. You put down are made willing. None of them say that. And as for John 1:13 sure it wasn't our will that chose to create God's method of saving people for that's really mostly what he was talking about...not of blood, or from physical decent and no we can't will our way to heaven by choosing some other way of Salvation. (that's basically what he was saying)
The way of Salvation is God's way that is you have to be born by God if each one will choose to receive his grace. Doesn't mean one can't resist and and reject it. The very reason Jesus was grieved and wept over Jerusalem demonstrates God longed for them not to do so. To claim he didn't care less is to mock the tears of Jesus claiming they weren't sincere!
Don't have to do that. It's a self-evident reality. Couldn't I ask you where's the term irresistible grace?
So now you feel the need to help God out and explained that it was a method that was being described in the Gospel of John or was it actually God saving people which is what most Believers understanding .... your prior posts I read to try to see what you had to say but now I can see quite clearly you are not really looking to learn or come to an understanding you looking to oppose truth and so the result is you oppose yourself and your left without the word of God because you have to explain away many many passages that come up with this nonsense and triviality that you're offering wasn't a method of Salvation the salvation and self spoken of in John the sitter is is passive he comes in God grant them repentance and faith and then save them from his sins. I'm using voice to text so some of the words and grammar are not quite on on keyWell Icon I guess I can say I'm glad in all my posts prior you took them seriously.
Again like I said 27 translations of the NT DO NOT put down Psalm 110:3 as you have stated. You put down are made willing. None of them say that. And as for John 1:13 sure it wasn't our will that chose to create God's method of saving people for that's really mostly what he was talking about...not of blood, or from physical decent and no we can't will our way to heaven by choosing some other way of Salvation. (that's basically what he was saying)
The way of Salvation is God's way that is you have to be born by God if each one will choose to receive his grace. Doesn't mean one can't resist and and reject it. The very reason Jesus was grieved and wept over Jerusalem demonstrates God longed for them not to do so. To claim he didn't care less is to mock the tears of Jesus claiming they weren't sincere!
Don't have to do that. It's a self-evident reality. Couldn't I ask you where's the term irresistible grace?
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There are times when God has to act based upon other attributes than Love....
Paul stated plainly that the natural man, the unsaved sinner, cannot receive the things of God by Himself, is the Gospel a thing from God?Well Icon I guess I can say I'm glad in all my posts prior you took them seriously.
Again like I said 27 translations of the NT DO NOT put down Psalm 110:3 as you have stated. You put down are made willing. None of them say that. And as for John 1:13 sure it wasn't our will that chose to create God's method of saving people for that's really mostly what he was talking about...not of blood, or from physical decent and no we can't will our way to heaven by choosing some other way of Salvation. (that's basically what he was saying)
The way of Salvation is God's way that is you have to be born by God if each one will choose to receive his grace. Doesn't mean one can't resist and and reject it. The very reason Jesus was grieved and wept over Jerusalem demonstrates God longed for them not to do so. To claim he didn't care less is to mock the tears of Jesus claiming they weren't sincere!
Don't have to do that. It's a self-evident reality. Couldn't I ask you where's the term irresistible grace?
Rockson
Active Member
No he doesn't. There's really no indication Paul is even talking about man from the day of his birth. It's believed by many it's really in reference to particular problems the Jews had with their false ideas and the Greeks as well. Many men would have a tendency to look to philosophical things and the Jews were prone to look for signs. Those things were true. Was Paul however making some grand statement about a universal inability of every human on earth to accept the gospel?
Did Paul for example when speaking of Cretans in saying, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” Titus 1:12 Does that mean 100% of every single one of them always are? Or was he rather talking about as a general rule they most certainly tend to be this way. Most men on the earth generally speaking choose not to understand and perceive things spiritually the way God shares with them to do in the gospel. THEY CHOOSE natural thinking but such didn't mean the couldn't choose God's spiritual way of thinking if they so chose. Add on to that God's encouragement to every human being to do so and there you have it.
Rockson
Active Member
Well with respect I'd say everything God does is within the perimeters of LOVE, including judgment. God doesn't have any diminished type of LOVE...impossible.
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