emeraldctyangel
New Member
Wow. Lighten up. It is just a baseball game.
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Yes, it is just a baseball game. Does it glorify God? If so how? I have challenged you (i.e., people on this board) to give Scripture that gives a precedent or demonstrates that God condones such entertainment. God does not. Not one has been able to give any Scripture to back up their position. But I have posted plenty of Scripture in defence of my position.
If you have missed them here is one of them:
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
--denying yourself, and taking up your cross is hardly entertaining, but it is sacrificial--something most Christians would rather not even talk about, much less do.
DHK
1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
If you have missed them here is one of them:
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
--denying yourself, and taking up your cross is hardly entertaining, but it is sacrificial--something most Christians would rather not even talk about, much less do.
DHK
1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
emeraldctyangel
New Member
Do YOU glorify God with your attitude?
What is really going on here? Are you implying that because we dont flog ourselves, carry a cross, or live in dirt - we are not worthy? I dont really think so, but this tack your on DHK, makes you sound like you could just use a nap. Didnt someone mention naps earlier?
Does baseball glorify God? ASK HIM.
What is really going on here? Are you implying that because we dont flog ourselves, carry a cross, or live in dirt - we are not worthy? I dont really think so, but this tack your on DHK, makes you sound like you could just use a nap. Didnt someone mention naps earlier?
Does baseball glorify God? ASK HIM.
Paul of Eugene
New Member
Hmmph. People who think entertainment is a waste of time and yet post to the Baptist Board are mentioned by Jesus in one of his sayings about taking the splinters out of the other person's eye . . . .
T
TaterTot
Guest
Those that are not teachable have the wrong attitude.
I said no such thing. But perhaps you misunderstand the verses that I quote. What does it mean to deny oneself? Better yet what does it mean to take up your cross?
in 1Cor.15:31 Paul said: "I die daily." What did he mean?
In Gal.2:20, he said:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
What did he mean when he said that he was crucified with Christ--he was already dead.
What is the meaning of "the cross?" What was a cross used for? Jesus died on a cross, but so did the two thieves beside him. The cross was the instrument of death used by the Romans. By the cross one was put to death. "Take up your cross and follow me. To put it another way: If you are not willing to put yourself to death, then you cannot follow me.
The first part of the verse says you must deny yourself. To deny means to say no--no to the flesh, no to your own wants, no to your own carnal wants, no to the entertainment that you desire, and yes to what God wants for you in your life; yes to the Holy Spirit's yielding in your life; yes to the complete filling of the Holy Spirit, so that you are completely controlled by Him.
"I am crucified with Christ." I no longer live. It is not me. My flesh is put to death. It is Christ and him alone that rules my life.
"Nevertheless I live." I live; I am alive. I am not dead physically.
"Yet not I but Christ liveth in me." It is not me that is living my life; it is Christ. He has total control. And BTW, he has no pleasure in entertainment. His pleasure is to please his father; to glorify him and him alone. We do that by carrying out the Great Commission in every way possible; whether it means going to Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Baffin Island, or wherever the Lord would have you to go.
I die to self; and live for Christ. It is that simple. Paul said I die daily. Every day he put his carnal body to death.
You are right; we are not worthy. How true a statement that is. What are we worthy of? We are worthy of the condemnation of God. We are worthy of eternal damnation. Salvation is entirely by the grace of God. Grace means that we don't deserve it, we are not worthy to deserve it. We are sinful creatures. Let me ask you: Are you so holy that you are able to stand before a holy God? If not how do you expect to get into Heaven, since nothing unholy can enter into heaven.
Yes they did. And I responded:
Psalms 127:2 It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep.
No it doesn't. Show me from the Bible where it does.
Do you get down on your knees and travail with God for your favorite team to win.
Do you hug your TV and ask God's blessing on it in hopes that it will help while watching it, to give it luck to win? Do you thank God for all the blessing your TV has been to you in your life?
How much time do you spend in prayer for your favorite baseball team?
James 4:2-3 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
DHK
I agree with you DHK.
MOST folks on this board are western christians. By "western"I mean they are ofwest european descent or culture.
I do not hesitate to say that MOST folks on this board would not know whatit is to deny themselves of anything.
Now why would I say that?
Because EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS THE LUXURY OF A COMPUTER.
How many third world ghetto kids have even seen a computer? Let alone drinking crystal clear water from the tap in a clean cup?
Nope. More and more as time goes on I am seeing the utter selfishness of western christianity and it sickens me. Think not? This very thread demonstrates my point quite effectively. Western christians are MORE selfish than their unsaved neighbors. Why? Because they have the "truth" yet they WILL NOT deny themselves any comforts or entertainments to give the truth away.
More the pity.
In HIS service;
Jim
MOST folks on this board are western christians. By "western"I mean they are ofwest european descent or culture.
I do not hesitate to say that MOST folks on this board would not know whatit is to deny themselves of anything.
Now why would I say that?
Because EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS THE LUXURY OF A COMPUTER.
How many third world ghetto kids have even seen a computer? Let alone drinking crystal clear water from the tap in a clean cup?
Nope. More and more as time goes on I am seeing the utter selfishness of western christianity and it sickens me. Think not? This very thread demonstrates my point quite effectively. Western christians are MORE selfish than their unsaved neighbors. Why? Because they have the "truth" yet they WILL NOT deny themselves any comforts or entertainments to give the truth away.
More the pity.
In HIS service;
Jim
emeraldctyangel
New Member
I never said that the Bible had a word to say about baseball. This whole thing is proof you can take something and drive it into the ground, and look like quite the wet blanket in the process.
My faith brings me great joy. ***edit by Blackbird*** I will pray for you to understand which battles to pick and when to learn to stop and smell some roses.
Personally, I dont worship sports or other entertainment, very silly idea anyway. I use my computer for a variety of things, education, staying in touch, and just passing time. I do not watch television at all and havent in the last six years. So a bit hard for me to comment on the pros and cons of this type of thing. But I have been to places where an ounce of clean water would have been worth my weight in gold. And it never occured to me that I should pour my good water out so I can drink the same water as those third world ghetto children. I should be lashed.
Sounds like you want to be a martyr. That never really works out all that well, but do what you want. I wont judge. Good wishes though.
[ July 17, 2005, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
My faith brings me great joy. ***edit by Blackbird*** I will pray for you to understand which battles to pick and when to learn to stop and smell some roses.
Personally, I dont worship sports or other entertainment, very silly idea anyway. I use my computer for a variety of things, education, staying in touch, and just passing time. I do not watch television at all and havent in the last six years. So a bit hard for me to comment on the pros and cons of this type of thing. But I have been to places where an ounce of clean water would have been worth my weight in gold. And it never occured to me that I should pour my good water out so I can drink the same water as those third world ghetto children. I should be lashed.
Sounds like you want to be a martyr. That never really works out all that well, but do what you want. I wont judge. Good wishes though.
[ July 17, 2005, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
Yeah, I don't really understand people making Jesus out to be so depressing and all. I for one believe He had a good time on earth and has a great sense of humor.Originally posted by Rachel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TexasSky:
Tater -
You aren't nuts. They taught it in church.
In fact, I remember Dr. Smith once did a whole sermon on "Jesus was not a depressing man." He said that He always hated it when people tried to present the image of Christ as "dour" and "depressed" or "depressing." Pointed out that people were always seeking Him out, that He was always being invited home to lunch or dinner, that children flocked to Him, and everything you just said about the wedding.
Where is the joy in people?! We can have a good time with harmless entertainment, nothing wrong with that. I think some Christian's are really missing out by condemning things that are not in scripture, just man-made rules that have no point at all, but to bring misery. </font>[/QUOTE]Isaiah 53:3 tells us the truth about the Hebrew's coming Messiah
"He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from Him; He was despised, and we esteemed Him not."
Hebrews 12:3 teaches us that Jesus "endured such contridiction of sinners against Himself."
The wise Soloman wrote in Ecclesiastes----all that is under the sun is vanity and a vexation of spirit!!!
We must keep in mind---that Jesus was the most loved man on earth----BUT at the same time He was the most hated man on earth.
Did Jesus have a "good time" on earth??? Sure He probably did---but that "good time" never no ever never contridicted the word of Scripture---now, did it??? Did Jesus have a "good time" on Earth---sure He did---but at the same time---I don't think He played "Ring around the Rosey" or "Hide and Seek" with the kids while on his way to the tomb of Lazarus---nor did He have such a "hot good time" while in the land of the Gadarenes!!! The disciples all thought they were friends with Jesus----but when the Shepherd was stricken----where'd the sheep go???? Jesus said Himself, "Strike the Shepherd and the sheep will scatter!"----that is a truth that was from the eons of eternity past and continues to be a truth to this very day!!!
When you grip scripture---grip all of it!!!!!
O
OCC
Guest
TexasSky, I think so too.
O
OCC
Guest
"What do all of these have in common. If you could ask them, they would say that entertainment would be a frivilous activity that would simply be a waste of time. God has more important things for his "ambassadors" to do. He has given us "the ministry of recnciliation." How successful are you in carrying out that ministry?
DHK"
I think you HAVE given your view of sports...
DHK"
I think you HAVE given your view of sports...
O
OCC
Guest
"Yes, it is just a baseball game. Does it glorify God? If so how? I have challenged you (i.e., people on this board) to give Scripture that gives a precedent or demonstrates that God condones such entertainment. God does not. Not one has been able to give any Scripture to back up their position. But I have posted plenty of Scripture in defence of my position.
If you have missed them here is one of them:
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
--denying yourself, and taking up your cross is hardly entertaining, but it is sacrificial--something most Christians would rather not even talk about, much less do.
DHK"
I haven't given Scripture because I don't have to. If the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not play/watch sports" then I believe I am free to do such. You on the other hand, appear to have a need to do only what Scripture tells you you can do w/o using your God given brain to determine if something you do (which is not forbidden) is ok. On that note...what are you doing on here? Certainly having a computer and then coming on here with the "power" of being a moderator is NOT denying yourself. I am going to respectfully disagree with you every time.
If you have missed them here is one of them:
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
--denying yourself, and taking up your cross is hardly entertaining, but it is sacrificial--something most Christians would rather not even talk about, much less do.
DHK"
I haven't given Scripture because I don't have to. If the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not play/watch sports" then I believe I am free to do such. You on the other hand, appear to have a need to do only what Scripture tells you you can do w/o using your God given brain to determine if something you do (which is not forbidden) is ok. On that note...what are you doing on here? Certainly having a computer and then coming on here with the "power" of being a moderator is NOT denying yourself. I am going to respectfully disagree with you every time.
O
OCC
Guest
"quote:
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Originally posted by emeraldctyangel:
Do YOU glorify God with your attitude?
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Those that are not teachable have the wrong attitude."
Are you speaking for yourself DHK? Those who say things as you just said are the unteachable people with a dose of power tripping mixed in. Now...why are you here? Why do you even have a computer? Until you ANSWER those questions like a man and answer them sufficiently I will believe you are just blowing hot air. What's wrong with baseball or any sport? Nothing! I think you should worry about more important stuff Sir.
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Originally posted by emeraldctyangel:
Do YOU glorify God with your attitude?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those that are not teachable have the wrong attitude."
Are you speaking for yourself DHK? Those who say things as you just said are the unteachable people with a dose of power tripping mixed in. Now...why are you here? Why do you even have a computer? Until you ANSWER those questions like a man and answer them sufficiently I will believe you are just blowing hot air. What's wrong with baseball or any sport? Nothing! I think you should worry about more important stuff Sir.
O
OCC
Guest
Let's go Tigers, let's go!!
On that note...maybe one of you moderators should shut this thread down because the hypocrisy going on here is enough to make any calm person just a little bit
On that note...maybe one of you moderators should shut this thread down because the hypocrisy going on here is enough to make any calm person just a little bit
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Now, wait a minute King James. DHK has a point and I think it is a very important one.
Are we subtituting entertainment into the place where our work for the Lord should reside?
A little relaxation every now and again isn't a sin, neither are the various forms of entertainment we use to acheive that relaxation. But even in the act of being relaxed, we should still be a witness for the Lord.
And too, we as westerner have a very different view of how often we need to relax. When I was a kid, we were lucky to get an hour on Saturday all to ourselves. Extra-ciriculur activities such as baseball or ballet? Didn't happen. If it wasn't constructive, we didn't do it. That is simply the way life was.
Nowdays, here in America, we don't have to work all the time just to keep food in our bellies and the rain off our heads. Instead of being grateful for the bounty, we have gotten the idea that we DESERVE it! That leads straight to the idea that we should be entertained when we want to be entertained.
Therein lays DHK's point. Entertainment is not a requirement for Christians. We should be willing to forgo all of it in order to spread the love of the Lord.
I will quibble with his apparent idea that witnessing/mission work, can't be done side by side with entertainment. It becomes clearer and clearer to me everyday, that the people who I come in contact with, have little or no knowledge of the Lord or what knowledge they have is flawed and/or useless. My greatest mission feild is right here.
Are we subtituting entertainment into the place where our work for the Lord should reside?
A little relaxation every now and again isn't a sin, neither are the various forms of entertainment we use to acheive that relaxation. But even in the act of being relaxed, we should still be a witness for the Lord.
And too, we as westerner have a very different view of how often we need to relax. When I was a kid, we were lucky to get an hour on Saturday all to ourselves. Extra-ciriculur activities such as baseball or ballet? Didn't happen. If it wasn't constructive, we didn't do it. That is simply the way life was.
Nowdays, here in America, we don't have to work all the time just to keep food in our bellies and the rain off our heads. Instead of being grateful for the bounty, we have gotten the idea that we DESERVE it! That leads straight to the idea that we should be entertained when we want to be entertained.
Therein lays DHK's point. Entertainment is not a requirement for Christians. We should be willing to forgo all of it in order to spread the love of the Lord.
I will quibble with his apparent idea that witnessing/mission work, can't be done side by side with entertainment. It becomes clearer and clearer to me everyday, that the people who I come in contact with, have little or no knowledge of the Lord or what knowledge they have is flawed and/or useless. My greatest mission feild is right here.
O
OCC
Guest
menageriekeeper...you make good points. I am not going to disagree with you. But I don't believe DHK was making those points. He wasn't saying there should be a balance or anything with entertainment in it's proper place. He was saying entertainment is sinful and anyone who enjoys the slightest amount of it is a friend of the world and an enemy of God.
If he were just to say it has it's proper place as long as it doesn't hurt our relationship with God, I would not have a problem with him. However, he is not saying that.
If he were just to say it has it's proper place as long as it doesn't hurt our relationship with God, I would not have a problem with him. However, he is not saying that.
O
OCC
Guest
"Instead of being grateful for the bounty, we have gotten the idea that we DESERVE it! That leads straight to the idea that we should be entertained when we want to be entertained."
Grateful, certainly. Deserving of relaxation or entertainment? After working hard for long hours, yes I believe we are. If I've earned enough money to go out to a movie or a sporting event and I've given to the church or to anyone in need...I am free to go do those things. Nobody, pastor, or moderator is going to convince me otherwise.
Grateful, certainly. Deserving of relaxation or entertainment? After working hard for long hours, yes I believe we are. If I've earned enough money to go out to a movie or a sporting event and I've given to the church or to anyone in need...I am free to go do those things. Nobody, pastor, or moderator is going to convince me otherwise.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Oh, oh, oh.......that sounds like a challenge!
Are you somehow implying that we can out give God??????
That He doesn't deserve our entire life assets and all?
That somehow you can possibly do enough for God so that you EARN you're entertainment?
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God does give us freedom to use our earthly assets in such a way as to suit ourselves. Still, our first priority should be to suit Him.
Are you somehow implying that we can out give God??????
That He doesn't deserve our entire life assets and all?
That somehow you can possibly do enough for God so that you EARN you're entertainment?
------------------------------------------------
God does give us freedom to use our earthly assets in such a way as to suit ourselves. Still, our first priority should be to suit Him.
O
OCC
Guest
Nope. I EARN my entertainment from working. Any money we have left after giving and responsibilities is ours to use freely. Sorry...I thought I made that clear.
I don't know how you thought I was implying that we can outgive God???
"That He doesn't deserve our entire life assets and all?"
That is a rhetorical question that you don't believe anyways right? After all...you are on a computer. No, you believe it...but you believe the same as me. We are free to use leftover money in any way we wish so long as it is not sinful. And sports are not sinful.
I don't know how you thought I was implying that we can outgive God???
"That He doesn't deserve our entire life assets and all?"
That is a rhetorical question that you don't believe anyways right? After all...you are on a computer. No, you believe it...but you believe the same as me. We are free to use leftover money in any way we wish so long as it is not sinful. And sports are not sinful.