Ephesians 1 Clearly teaches Calvinism as to Salvation

[jeremiah1five]

Of course jesus is primary, for he is God Incarnate, and Paul was the greatest theologians in history, but the Lord still gave to us gifyed theologians after them to read and learn from!

Of course. The teacher is important, but there comes a time in each believers walk to walk on their own on.

1 Corinthians 13:11 (KJV)
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[Reformed]

Calvin was a learned theologian who was prolific in his writings. Some of the things he wrote are a benefit to the church. Some things are not. As a Baptist, I disagree with his ecclesiology and his position on Baptism. As a Monergist, I agree with his view on predestination and election. Spurgeon believed the same. In his "A Defense of Calvinism" Spurgeon wrote, "Calvinism is the Gospel". Of course, Spurgeon was referring to the doctrines of Grace. But Spurgeon was also vehemently against infant baptism and Presbyterian ecclesiology. It is good to keep the record straight. We do not follow a man. We obey scripture.

John Calvin wa sone of the greatest theologians God ever gave to His church though!

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[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon, "The Necessity of Increased Faith"

"A certain somebody drew up five or six doctrines, and said, "There are the doctrines of the Bible," and ye believe these....Calvin is made the standard and what business has any man to think a single thought beyond Calvin? Blessed be God, we have gone a little beyond that; and we can say, "Increase our faith." With all our admiration for these great standard divines, we are not prepared to shut ourselves up in their little iron cages; but we say, "Open the door, and let me fly—let me still feel that I am at liberty. Increase my faith, and help me to believe a little more." I know I can say I have had an increase of faith in one or two respects within the last few months. I could not, for a long time, see anything like the Millenium in the Scriptures; I could not much rejoice in the Second Coming of Christ, though I did believe it; but gradually my faith began to open to that subject, and I find it now a part of my meat and drink, to be looking for, as well as hastening unto, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm not sure of the difference. Paul clearly had a specific task in writing Scripture, but working as an Equipping Apostle is still the reality of many today.

No one today can write inspired theology to us, and none have those gifts to heal and do miracles today!

 

[JonShaff]

No one today can write inspired theology to us, and none have those gifts to heal and do miracles today!

I didn't say anyone writes Scripture today. Secondly, the work of an apostle far exceeds gifts to heal and do miracles.

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvin was a learned theologian who was prolific in his writings. Some of the things he wrote are a benefit to the church. Some things are not. As a Baptist, I disagree with his ecclesiology and his position on Baptism. As a Monergist, I agree with his view on predestination and election. Spurgeon believed the same. In his "A Defense of Calvinism" Spurgeon wrote, "Calvinism is the Gospel". Of course, Spurgeon was referring to the doctrines of Grace. But Spurgeon was also vehemently against infant baptism and Presbyterian ecclesiology. It is good to keep the record straight. We do not follow a man. We obey scripture.

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I agree with all that you stated here, but would just be seeking others to ackowledge that Calvin and others such as a Spurgeon were indeed gifts from God to his church to learn from!

 

[Yeshua1]

I didn't say anyone writes Scripture today. Secondly, the work of an apostle far exceeds gifts to heal and do miracles.

True, but a real Apostle would have to be able to do them, and to be able to record inspired texts to us!

 

[JonShaff]

True, but a real Apostle would have to be able to do them, and to be able to record inspired texts to us!

2/3rds of the 12 apostles did not record scripture, and their miracles are not recorded in Scripture. a true apostle is ordained of God to be sent out of a local body to start a new work. Read 1-2 Timothy and Titus.

 

[Yeshua1]

2/3rds of the 12 apostles did not record scripture, and their miracles are not recorded in Scripture. a true apostle is ordained of God to be sent out of a local body to start a new work. Read 1-2 Timothy and Titus.

The Apostles still were all inspired though, and all had to see Jesus!
So there would be none qualified today...

 

[JonShaff]

Tyhe Apostles still were all inspired though, and had to see Jesus!

You are putting prerequisites that Scripture does not hold to concerning the general ministry Gift of an Apostle in Ephesians 4. Not to mention, do you have witness of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ?

 

[Reformed]

With respect, that should not be our goal. Our goal should be to persuade others of the truth, just as we should always seek to know the truth. Scripture tells us that all things work for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose (Rom. 8:28). "All things" include all who proclaim the truth. Don't worry if people do not give credit to those teachers you esteem. Rejoice if they obey the Word.

I agree with all that you stated here, but would just be seeking others to ackowledge that Calvin and others such as a Spurgeon were indeed gifts from God to his church to learn from!

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[SovereignGrace]

With respect, that should not be our goal. Our goal should be to persuade others of the truth, just as we should always seek to know the truth. Scripture tells us that all things work for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose (Rom. 8:28). "All things" include all who proclaim the truth. Don't worry if people do not give credit to those teachers you esteem. Rejoice if they obey the Word.

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YES! Amen! When the Christ spoke to those two on the Emmaus road, He didn’t say it was He they were talking to. He took them to the scriptures. The scriptures are all we need.

 

[Yeshua1]

With respect, that should not be our goal. Our goal should be to persuade others of the truth, just as we should always seek to know the truth. Scripture tells us that all things work for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose (Rom. 8:28). "All things" include all who proclaim the truth. Don't worry if people do not give credit to those teachers you esteem. Rejoice if they obey the Word.

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I agree that it is the scriptures alone that God gave to us to learn from , and to mature us up, but he also gave to us gifted teachers of that word, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

YES! Amen! When the Christ spoke to those two on the Emmaus road, He didn’t say it was He they were talking to. He took them to the scriptures. The scriptures are all we need.

Amen!

 

[Rippon]

Calvin was a learned theologian who was prolific in his writings. Some of the things he wrote are a benefit to the church.

Some? No, an overwhelming majority.

But Spurgeon was also vehemently against Presbyterian ecclesiology.

You are very mistaken. There were quite a number of things CHS was vehemently against -- Presbyterian ecclesiology was not among them. As a matter of fact, he believed Baptist churches were rather isolated and wished that they had more of a confederation with one another like the Presbyterians.

It is good to keep the record straight.

Indeed, it is.

 

[Yeshua1]

Some? No, an overwhelming majority.

You are very mistaken. There were quite a number of things CHS was vehemently against -- Presbyterian ecclesiology was not among them. As a matter of fact, he believed Baptist churches were rather isolated and wished that they had more of a confederation with one another like the Presbyterians.

Indeed, it is.

I think that we can agree that we can learn a lot from both Spurgeon and Calvin in the area of theology!

 

[Reformed]

but he also gave to us gifted teachers of that word, correct?

Any good teacher is a gifted teacher.

Ephesians 4:11-13 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. (emphasis mine)

We all have a tendency to revere those teachers that made a notable impact on our lives. Some of these teachers are well-known, others are more obscure. Some of our "heroes" come from centuries past. Monergists can name men like Spurgeon, Calvin, Augustine, Gill, Dagg, Keach, Owen, McCheyne et. al. Synergists may point to Darby, Scofield, Moody, Grantham, Hewlys et. al. Some people may be bold enough to say that they profited from all of them to various degrees. There are some teachers outside of my local church that I naturally gravitate to. I appreciate the writings of Spurgeon, Owen, Luther, Calvin, Henry, Gill, and Dagg. 20th and 21st-century teachers such as Sproul, MacArthur, Begg, Boice, and Lloyd-Jones are my go-to's.

 

[Yeshua1]

Any good teacher is a gifted teacher.

Ephesians 4:11-13 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. (emphasis mine)

We all have a tendency to revere those teachers that made a notable impact on our lives. Some of these teachers are well-known, others are more obscure. Some of our "heroes" come from centuries past. Monergists can name men like Spurgeon, Calvin, Augustine, Gill, Dagg, Keach, Owen, McCheyne et. al. Synergists may point to Darby, Scofield, Moody, Grantham, Hewlys et. al. Some people may be bold enough to say that they profited from all of them to various degrees. There are some teachers outside of my local church that I naturally gravitate to. I appreciate the writings of Spurgeon, Owen, Luther, Calvin, Henry, Gill, and Dagg. 20th and 21st-century teachers such as Sproul, MacArthur, Begg, Boice, and Lloyd-Jones are my go-to's.

That is my main point here, as we can appreciate and read in order to understand jesus and the scriptures more clearly those persons gifted by God in the past and the present!

 

[Rippon]

Synergists may point to Darby, Scofield, Moody, Grantham, Hewlys et. al.

Darby most certainly was not a synergist. He was a strongly monergistic. In the first edition of A.W.P.'s book The Sovereignty Of God J.N.D. was favorably quoted. And don't you remember the flare up between Darby and Moody? Darby had enough of Moody's Arminian interruptions and finally said "I came to supply exposition, not brains." He was asked to leave,

 

[Gup20]

My take on this is that the scripture clearly states that salvation is synergistic, but this fact does not detract from God's sovereignty in the least... in fact, it shows he is bigger and more powerful.

Deuteronomy 30:1
So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you,

Deuteronomy 30:6
Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

Deuteronomy 30:11
For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?

Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Clearly, these verses are in the context of Salvation (Circumcision of the heart). It says it is a CHOICE God sets before man. It explicitly states Salvation is NOT too difficult for man to make the choice, and that it is NOT a choice made by God in heaven. Paul quotes Deuteronomy 30 when speaking of Salvation in Romans 10:

Rom 10:6-10 NASB
6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

So we know that Deuteronomy 30 speaks of Salvation.... so when it says (3 times) that it is a choice set before man, and when it says it is not a choice God makes in heaven, we know it speaks of Salvation. Moreover, Deuteronomy 30:19 shows the choice is completely synergistic - God calls "heaven" and "earth" as co-witnesses of the choice man makes.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

To "testify" means to "bear witness to" so Romans 8:16 shows that God's spirit (heaven) and our spirit (earth) testify (witness) to the choice man makes for salvation. Romans 8:16 and Deuteronomy 30:19 say the same thing.

Now as to Ephesians 1, it gives the order:

Eph 1:13-14 NASB
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.

So the indwelling of the spirit comes AFTER listening to the gospel and believing it... not BEFORE.