1689Dave
Well-Known Member
This is because it will never be manifested in this physical world as a physical kingdom. It is already here but only those born again can see it.
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Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.
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Again, a statement of yours with no proof. Simply saying something does not make it so. Tell me why something being spiritual can never be physical.
I say to you that David's throne was physical, and Jesus will sit upon it. That proves a physical kingdom on earth. There are many Scriptures about this, but you apparently don't have ears to hear, since you love to make statements without proof and quote verses without comment.
Shame on you for such terrible dishonesty. You made a statement that
I asked you to post a quote from an a-mil, pre-mil, or post-mil writer that teaches the Kingdom of God is physical instead of spiritual
You keep ducking and dodging the question because you know your OP is a lie. You can't provide such quotes because they don't exist. You made the whole issue up out of whole cloth.
I am beginning to think you are a troll, and trolling is a Baptist Board rule violation. So, I strongly suggest you stop trolling and provide honest responses.
If you can't support your assertion in the OP just admit it and I will close the thread. If you can support it, post quotes from a-mil, pre-mil, or post-mil writers where they say the Kingdom is physical instead of spiritual.
I just looked at post this again. My reaction is, "Huh?" What are you trying to say?
I said, "So to say that the millennial throne of Jesus (the "throne of David") is physical but not spiritual is simply wrong. It is both."
But you said the above, "That is why...." That makes no sense whatsoever.
And some simply quote the promise of God concerning the physical Kingdom which we generally call the Millennial Kingdom.
Here are a few passages which show this coming Kingdom:
Isaiah 65:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isaiah 11:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
There shall be long life and the enmity between animals and animals, and man and animals will no longer exist.
We also see a physical Kingdom after Christ's Return through His Own teachings:
Luke 17:26-37
King James Version (KJV)
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
Christ makes it clear that when He returns He will destroy the unbelievers. This is just basic to the Eschatology of Christ.
He continues His teaching on the coming destruction, which is known as The Day of he Lord:
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
The Lord makes it clear that those taken are taken in judgment, which is the context of the days of Noah and Lot. Utter destruction upon all but those kept from the judgment.
The "body" above speaks of the dead, and in view is carcasses being feasted upon by carrion fowl, not something new to Prophecy:
Ezekiel 39
King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
The destruction here cannot be confused with God destroying the unbelieving following the Millennial Kingdom, first, because at that time the current universe passes away and the Great White Throne commences, then the new heavens and Earth are created (Revelation 20-22), and we do not see the concept of "falling upon the open field" that the birds and beasts might feed upon their flesh.
Secondly, if we continue in Chapter 39 we see a continuance of the current creation for an extended period which also denies the destruction of Revelation 20 is in view:
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
This correlates to Christ's Return as prophesied by John:
Revelation 19:17-21
King James Version (KJV)
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
As Christ states in John 3, no man will enter the Kingdom of God except they be born again. In the context of Christ's meeting with Nicodemus we remember that the Lord was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel to men, and that He ministered within the framework of the revelation provided to men in that day. The Kingdom Nicodemus would have understood is the Kingdom the Disciples ask about here:
Acts 1:4-7
King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Christ does not say "There's a new plan," but, "It's not for you to know when that is going to take place."
While we can, having been granted the revelation of the New Testament, understand Christ in John 3 in a broader perspective than Nicodemus, still, Nicodemus should have remembered how the Lord said He would resurrect Israel, which I will not post due to length, but simply say Ezekiel 37 should have come to mind, rather than physical birth.
God bless.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are the same thing. God fulfills all of these prophecies in earth since Christ's first advent, and in heaven. But there cannot ever be a physical kingdom on earth. A physical Millennium is impossible because Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. In the New World, there is no sin and death as the physical millennium has. And besides these two worlds. the present evil world and the world to come, scripture knows of no other age.
You are misinterpreting. The term "world" in John 18:36, "not of this world," is the genitive of the Greek kosmos, which refers to the world system, not the physical earth. If Christ had meant His kingdom was not of this physical earth, He would have used the Greek word ge, meaning "land" or "earth."
Luke 22
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
in Jesus kingdom there will be eating and drinking at a table with thrones and the apostles sitting on them.
All earthly functions.
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
in Jesus kingdom there will be eating and drinking at a table with thrones and the apostles sitting on them.
All earthly functions.
I said I was going to watch from the sidelines, well I decided to jump in the fray... Scriptures say the kingdom of God is within you... I believe that Spirit dwells there now and when I die that Spirit will go back to God that gave it to await the joining of it with my physical body... Scripture says the adoption of our bodies... What body is being adopted?... To say that the body being raised is a Spiritual one only, then explain to me why Jesus Christ was raised in a physical one?... He told Mary... Touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my Father which is in heaven... Why did he tell her that?.. I'll let you preachers wrestle with that one... Also the body he had at the resurrection was able to pass through a wall and be one place instantaneously, my body, now cannot do that... Maybe someday?... What are you going to with Job who said he would see God with his own eyes and not those of another?... I doubt if me or anyone on here has any concept on a immortal physical body and its unlimited capabilities... The Apostle Paul didn't... Scripture says we will be like Christ because we shall see him as he is... WOW!... I have no words to express that thought... You brethren pardon me for my wandering here and there but I have to quit somewhere... I could go on and on... What a day coming when we shall live forever in a sinless Heaven in our immortal physical bodies with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... See you all there!... Brother Glen
Prove it crabby
I could be wrong but I think so. Posts exactly like him.
interesting.
We are IN the world but not OF the world.
So the kingdom of God is not of the world - not motivated by the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.
Even still, cannot the genitive of that passage actually carry the idea of his Kingdom not being of this world meaning it’s source? Seems the OP wants to force a very narrow interpretation of the genitive clause onto the text.
In fact I think the original poster is refuted by this verse
John 8:23 KJV
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Ironically, the word “world” here is also Kosmos and it’s also in the genitive case.
I ask the OP, if you were interpret this text the same as you are the one where Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world, then you would have to conclude Jesus never physically existed in this world, because Jesus is “not of this world” just as his kingdom is “not of this world” (according to you). So do you actually contend that Jesus did not physically exist and have a physical body? Because then are in the realm of gnostic heresy.
You need to repent of your false doctrine that Christ’s kingdom is never physical. Jesus physically existed on earth and so will his kingdom.
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So 'world' actually doesn't mean 'world' after all.
You're going to upset a lot of people with that, John!
That reminds me of what I believe is going on in these verses.
We are like Jesus now in that we are of heaven and our thoughts centered on the lofty things of above. We are foreigners, strangers, and exiles here on earth when part of the Kingdom. It's not just that we don't fit in, it's that our choices are not based on the things of this world. For one, we reject sin, which is like the beloved God of this world below Satan. There are even fools for Christ, who suffer in this world for their faith in Jesus expecting a better resurrection to come. Our lives revolve around heaven, not the earth or its inhabitants, and the things of it and them (1 Corinthians 4:10-13, Philippians 3:18-21, Hebrews 11:12-14, 2 Peter 2:11).
Of course, Philippians 3:20 ends this entire debate, as Jesus returns in the flesh...to do what according to 1689Dave I do not know.
1689Dave, I can understand if this is trolling by asking you one thing: Does Jesus physically return? If you do not answer this in the affirmative, you are Gnostic, and thus well outside the bounds of Christian.
Rm has issued a fatwa...no need to comment any further...
Yes, but he's right.
He makes a solid point here.... showing the language in the exact same way we use Acts 5 to show the Spirit is God when confronting Jw's.
His meaning was quite clear.
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