Eschatology Agnostics

[Lodic]

Matthew 24:22
Mark 13:20

Those parallel verses from the Olivet Discourse do not say that all life would end if He didn't return. In context, "no life" of the ones that were in danger. Just a few verses earlier, Jesus warned them to escape Jerusalem when things got bad.

 

[Lodic]

No, it really can't. You're backed into a corner to make it mean that for the sake of your theology, but it's just another summersault your theology requires.

Why not just trust the Bible, instead?



Revelation.

My eschatological viewpoint doesn't mean that I trust the Bible any more than your viewpoint means that you don't. How do you figure I'm "backed into a corner"? What summersaults does Preterism require? I really comes down to a matter of interpretation. I held the Dispensationalist "futurist" view for many years, then realized it didn't really make sense. On the contrary, I've learned that Preterism makes very good sense.

 

[Yeshua1]

What evidence do you have for the late date of Revelation's writing?

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1552-when-was-the-book...

 

[Yeshua1]

Those parallel verses from the Olivet Discourse do not say that all life would end if He didn't return. In context, "no life" of the ones that were in danger. Just a few verses earlier, Jesus warned them to escape Jerusalem when things got bad.

All human life would have been threatened!

 

[Yeshua1]

My eschatological viewpoint doesn't mean that I trust the Bible any more than your viewpoint means that you don't. How do you figure I'm "backed into a corner"? What summersaults does Preterism require? I really comes down to a matter of interpretation. I held the Dispensationalist "futurist" view for many years, then realized it didn't really make sense. On the contrary, I've learned that Preterism makes very good sense.

Only if you disregard the second coming as when the saints will be raised up, when the Messianic Age is ushered in, and when the Kingdom is now set up in full!

 

[Lodic]

Indeed.

Rev. 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

There early Church was not spared the wrath of men. It will be spared the wrath of the Lamb, via the rapture.

Ignore this post. I accidentally replied to this, and didn't know how to cancel it.

 

[robycop3]

The "Sea Beast" of Revelation was Emperor Nero (the 6th King). Why the reference to a physical resurrection of the saints?

MMRRPP! WRONG!

I can't recall exactly where that "Nero = beast" stupidity came from, but it IS STUPIDITY ! !
Why?
Because Nero didn't fulfill many Scriptural criteria for the Beast! Remember, Nero's life as Caesar is well-documented.

The beast will overcome 3 other rulers to attain power. Daniel 7:24)
Nero inherited the title & was confirmed as Caesar by the Senate, peacefully.

The beast will enter the temple & commit the AOD.
Nero was NOT known to have EVER been in Jerusalem.

The beast will not recognize any "god" but himself.
Nero worshipped the Roman pantheon of "gods/goddesses", building shrines to several of'em.

The beast will have a false prophet as his sidekick.
Nero had no deputy.

The beast cannot be defeated by any man.
Nero was overthrown by General Galba, who took over as Caesar.

The beast is to be cast alive into the lake of fire.
Nero DIED. This was witnessed by several men.

While Nero was undeniably a bad feller & a pervert, he was NOT the beast! Someone, Sir, has fed you a bushel of NONSENSE!

 

[Lodic]

Only if you disregard the second coming as when the saints will be raised up, when the Messianic Age is ushered in, and when the Kingdom is now set up in full!

Actually, I do see the Second Coming in our future, but definitely not the Rapture. Obviously your views make sense to you, otherwise you wouldn't hold them. Same for me.

 

[Lodic]

MMRRPP! WRONG!

I can't recall exactly where that "Nero = beast" stupidity came from, but it IS STUPIDITY ! !
Why?
Because Nero didn't fulfill many Scriptural criteria for the Beast! Remember, Nero's life as Caesar is well-documented.

The beast will overcome 3 other rulers to attain power. Daniel 7:24)
Nero inherited the title & was confirmed as Caesar by the Senate, peacefully.

The beast will enter the temple & commit the AOD.
Nero was NOT known to have EVER been in Jerusalem.

The beast will not recognize any "god" but himself.
Nero worshipped the Roman pantheon of "gods/goddesses", building shrines to several of'em.

The beast will have a false prophet as his sidekick.
Nero had no deputy.

The beast cannot be defeated by any man.
Nero was overthrown by General Galba, who took over as Caesar.

The beast is to be cast alive into the lake of fire.
Nero DIED. This was witnessed by several men.

While Nero was undeniably a bad feller & a pervert, he was NOT the beast! Someone, Sir, has fed you a bushel of NONSENSE!

Clearly we are not going to agree on this. Anyway, I need to get back to work. I might get a chance to get back later this afternoon. As always, it is interesting to discuss this with you. If I don't get back to you, here's wishing you a nice (and warm) weekend.

 

[robycop3]

With all those passages, I can't accuse you of not providing Scripture to make your point . I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make with the first 9 passages. Israel was multiplied and ultimately glorified when the Messiah came from their line.

Points 1 and 2 are related, so I will address them together. 1948 did NOT see a prophecy fulfilled. Ezekiel 37's "dry bones" prophecy was fulfilled when Israel returned after the 70 year captivity (see Ezra & Nehemiah). While Isaiah 11:11-12 is often interpreted as being fulfilled in 1948, I don't believe that is the case. This more likely points to Judah's return from exile that we see in Ezra & Nehemiah (see 2 Samuel 7:10). Likewise, the Jeremiah passage may refer to the return from exile.
Deuteronomy 29:22-28 is a reference to the Assyrian captivity of Judah. Of course, Judah did return from captivity.

Backing up to Ezekiel 36, this is not a prophecy of Israel becoming a nation. Rather, this is a promise of cleansing and healing (v. 25). Modern Israel is largely atheistic. (I believe that Tel Aviv has the largest homosexual population in the world.) Why would God bless them? God did not restore the land as a reward for unbelief.

I haven't gone through "part 2" yet.

No, God told Zeke that the bones, etc. represented the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel, not just the Jews. So far, only the Jews have been restored. That's only 3 of the 12 tribes.

And God restored them IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES, not because they DESERVED it. God had PROMISED to restore them, so He did. And he will "cleanse" them as He said, when the time comes.

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually, I do see the Second Coming in our future, but definitely not the Rapture. Obviously your views make sense to you, otherwise you wouldn't hold them. Same for me.

So you are not a full preterist, but are still arguing for that position? I am a premil, who sees the rapture either Mid or post trib...

 

[Yeshua1]

MMRRPP! WRONG!

I can't recall exactly where that "Nero = beast" stupidity came from, but it IS STUPIDITY ! !
Why?
Because Nero didn't fulfill many Scriptural criteria for the Beast! Remember, Nero's life as Caesar is well-documented.

The beast will overcome 3 other rulers to attain power. Daniel 7:24)
Nero inherited the title & was confirmed as Caesar by the Senate, peacefully.

The beast will enter the temple & commit the AOD.
Nero was NOT known to have EVER been in Jerusalem.

The beast will not recognize any "god" but himself.
Nero worshipped the Roman pantheon of "gods/goddesses", building shrines to several of'em.

The beast will have a false prophet as his sidekick.
Nero had no deputy.

The beast cannot be defeated by any man.
Nero was overthrown by General Galba, who took over as Caesar.

The beast is to be cast alive into the lake of fire.
Nero DIED. This was witnessed by several men.

While Nero was undeniably a bad feller & a pervert, he was NOT the beast! Someone, Sir, has fed you a bushel of NONSENSE!

Jesus did not slay Nero at His second coming, as that event has not yet happened!

 

[Lodic]

So you are not a full preterist, but are still arguing for that position? I am a premil, who sees the rapture either Mid or post trib...

Yes, in that I don't see the full preterist view as heretical. Just a matter of whether or not all prophecy has been fulfilled. Of course, I do agree with that view up to a point. This has been a great discussion, but I'm late getting back to work. In case I don't make it back later this afternoon, have a great weekend and try to stay warm .

 

[Calminian]

My eschatological viewpoint doesn't mean that I trust the Bible any more than your viewpoint means that you don't. How do you figure I'm "backed into a corner"? What summersaults does Preterism require? I really comes down to a matter of interpretation. I held the Dispensationalist "futurist" view for many years, then realized it didn't really make sense. On the contrary, I've learned that Preterism makes very good sense.

Heresy, actually, if you're a full preterist. You don't even know the correct Lord if that's the case. Hopefully you don't go that far.

I don't know why people fall way from the plain reading of Scripture. That's a mystery. But Scripture tells they do.

 

[Lodic]

Heresy, actually, if you're a full preterist. You don't even know the correct Lord if that's the case. Hopefully you don't go that far.

I don't know why people fall way from the plain reading of Scripture. That's a mystery. But Scripture tells they do.

Actually, I am a Partial Preterist. Why do you think Full Preterism is heretical? The Full Preterists that I know bow their knee to the same Jesus that I do. I gotta run, so I hope to catch you later.

 

[robycop3]

Actually, I do see the Second Coming in our future, but definitely not the Rapture. Obviously your views make sense to you, otherwise you wouldn't hold them. Same for me.

Well, then, Sir, you're gonna hafta discard your preterism, as JESUS said, in Matt. 24:29 “But IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory."

So, if the great trib was in 70 AD as prets say, then either Jesus is long-overdue or the above Scripture is wrong. However, it's obvious that the pret blather is wrong. The trib has NOT happened yet!

 

[Calminian]

Actually, I am a Partial Preterist. Why do you think Full Preterism is heretical? The Full Preterists that I know bow their knee to the same Jesus that I do. I gotta run, so I hope to catch you later.

All heretics bow the knee to their god. Not a good argument. If someone refuses to believe in the return of Christ as described in the beginning of Acts, they're following the wrong Jesus. Simple as that. And if you cared about them, you'd warn them.

 

[Calminian]

Well, then, Sir, you're gonna hafta discard your preterism, as JESUS said, in Matt. 24:29 “But IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory."

So, if the great trib was in 70 AD as prets say, then either Jesus is long-overdue or the above Scripture is wrong. However, it's obvious that the pret blather is wrong. The trib has NOT happened yet!

Man! I mean how much clearer can it get?

 

[robycop3]

Clearly we are not going to agree on this. Anyway, I need to get back to work. I might get a chance to get back later this afternoon. As always, it is interesting to discuss this with you. If I don't get back to you, here's wishing you a nice (and warm) weekend.

Correct, sir, we are NOT gonna agree about Nero, as I showedya incontrovertible PROOF that the pret view is WRONG! You can check out those FACTS about Nero in any encyclopedia or Roman history book. And I hope you're familiar with the Scripture I cited.

Nice weekend to you, too! It's supposed to get down to 16 degrees F. tonight here(southern Ohio) but we're used to it, as it happens every year.

 

[robycop3]

Actually, I am a Partial Preterist. Why do you think Full Preterism is heretical? The Full Preterists that I know bow their knee to the same Jesus that I do. I gotta run, so I hope to catch you later.

Matt. 24:29-30 prove partial preterism wrong.