Featured Esv

I asked you to provide what in your mind would be evidence for the ESV being a Calvinistic version. I did not see where you addressed the issue.

Lets start with Revelation 13:7 where the ESV has names being (not) written "before" the foundation of the world. This is consistent with the idea that individuals were chosen (or not) before the foundation of the world, the Calvinistic view of Ephesians 1:4.

What I expect to be the response, "one verse does not demonstrate a Calvinistic bias," or some such deflection.

Like a lawyer building a brief, he first wants to see all the evidence, so he can construct a response that addresses all the evidence and tells a story advantageous to his side.

That is why without criteria, any effort would be akin to shoveling sand against the tide.

 

Yes, sorry, I relied on my memory, always a mistake. Revelation 13:8 has the "before" where the non-biased versions have from or since.

I think at odds with the NASB, NKJV, HCSB, and NET, would demonstrate the bias. When you throw in only in the ESV, the ESV could cite the NLT and NIV, which are also, in my view, biased.

Bottom line, I have cited a verse that supports Calvinistic theology and is at odds with the non-cal versions.

 

Crossway has really stepped up the marketing of the ESV offering many, many editions. Also the neo-reformed movement has adopted the ESV.

ESV is a fine translation so it's good that people are using it. It does have a reformed lean, but not enough to make it unusable by those not of the reformed point of view.

I like and use the NIV.

 

As I expected, your move along, nothing to see here, response demonstrates no evidence could be supplied that you are not ready to dismiss as a distinction without a difference.

But what cannot be denied is this translation differs from the non-Cal translations, and therefore meets my criteria as demonstrating Calvinistic bias.

What Calvinists do here is claim something happening before the foundation of the world happens at the same time with actions taking place from or since the foundation of world. Irrational, yes, but there you have it, the Calvinist distinction without a difference.

 

I grew up on the NASB as a Christian, it was difficult to make the switch - I still like it and use it when I compare text.

1. The NASB does not use modern formatting to show quotes, poetry, and various other changes in the structure of the text.

2. While I do not detest Westcott-Hort's Greek text (much to the contrary), I feel the NASB follows it too closely for my tastes.

3. The NASB translators were reluctant to use the Hebrew Qumran texts, since then other texts discovered have helped to clarify difficult portions.

Rob

 

I'm not very familiar with the HCSB.
There were some distractions (not errors) in the NT translation that I could not overcome.

Rob

 

1) Setting aside the banghead emoticon as effort to demean.

2) Now the evidence of bias is not only a distinction without a difference, but is laughable.

3) To repeat, before means before and from or since means after. They are opposites. However, with all things Calvinistic, we have a Calvinist claiming the opposite, before means after and after means before.

4) Compare Revelation 17:8 and ask if the names were (not) written from rather than before. Ask yourselves why the ESV translators did not translate "apo" as from in Revelation 13:8 as they did in Revelation 17:8. Then consider the RL argument from the KJV.

5) It appears that no evidence of bias will be accepted, it is all to be disparaged as laughable and without merit.

Bottom line, the ESV is a Calvinistic version, with several verses badly mistranslated in support of Calvinism. The ESV is almost as bad as the NIV and NLT.

 

If the names were written or not written since or after the foundation of the world, why were they not written before the foundation of the world if God chose individuals before the foundation of the world? However, if individuals were chosen for salvation from or since the foundation of the world, then it makes sense that their names would be written or not in the same time frame, from creation to the end of the age.

 

I think there is a difference.

 

Another Calvinist drinks the coolaid!

RL equated before and from as a distinction without a difference, thus saying they mean the same thing. Yet, he then charges me with misrepresentation.

Calvinists seem to be all the same. Shuck then jive.

Unless you will admit the ESV mistranslates the text in a manner consistent with Calvinist theology at Revelation 13:8, there is no need to show you more evidence.

 

Jive... now there is an apt description of someone I know.