Eternal Security is NEVER wrong.

[Dr. Walter]

I John 2:18-19 refers to the apostasy of certain antichrists. It does not refer to the apostasy of true Christians, and it cannot be applied to the apostasy of true Christians. The apostasy of true Christians is dealt with elsewhere in the New Testament.

Oh, I get it! One kind of person is lost one way and another kind of person is lost another way!!! One kind of person turns AGAINST Christ and is lost one way and another kind of person turns AGAINST Christ and loses salvation another way!!

How convenient! You follow the DOUBLE method of all cults when confronted with texts that contradict their heresies - they just invent another kind or type to escape their dilemma.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I know other true Christians have committed the sin of apostasy because the Bible tells me so, not because I think I am God.

I see! You can just state that your interpetation is the final and authority one when it has already been debunked as false interpretations so you just act like a parrot and repeat your declarations without evidence.

 

[Dr. Walter]

John 5:24 does not set forth conditions but is a verily verily declaration of what has ALREADY been accomplished and what WILL NOT occur - these two tenses completely destroy your intepretation as your interpretation denies both tenses as your intepretation demands PROGRESSION and POTENTIAL only not COMPLETION (perfect tense) and denial of future potential judgement.

This text alone is sufficient to debunk your total soteriology.

John 5:24 promises that the one who presently hears and believes presently has everlasting life and will not come into condemnation. It does not promise he will not come into judgment, for all human beings are going to come into judgment by Christ. This verse also does not teach that one who has passed from death unto life cannot pass from life unto death.

 

[RAdam]

Do you understand what He meant when He said the person who hears and believes shall not come into condemnation? Surely you do not.

Read the book of Romans. It clearly explains how we were naturally in a state of condemnation. We were in this state because we were represented in Adam, and by his sin judgement came unto condemnation. But, then it tells us that by what Christ, the second Adam, did the free gift (of righteousness) came to justification of life. Thus, when Paul gets to chapter 8, he proclaims that there is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ. No one can lay anything to the charge of God's elect. Noone can condemn them. Why? Because Christ died for them, rose again for them, and is seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession for them. Notice that all hinges on Christ, not on us. The devil can't slip in there and bring anything to our charge because Jesus took every single sin, every single offense, every single charge the devil could have made against us and forever separated them from us by His cross, thereby making peace and reconciling us to the Father. It is on this ground that God has justified us. Noone can condemn us. Christ is not preserving us and making intercession for us. All is conditioned on Him, not us.

When Christ says we shall not come into condmenation, He means you'll never have anything laid to your charge. You are justified in the sight of God and stand before Him holy and without blame in love. Never will you be in a state of condemnation because Christ took that away.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

We have eternal life only if we are in union with Christ. If we are in union with Christ, we manifest in our daily lives the fruit of the Spirit instead of the works of the flesh. Our relationship with Christ is a voluntary love relationship, which means that we can walk away from and end that relationship if we so choose.

To avoid condemnation, we must keep on hearing and keep on believing. It is not enough for us to have heard and believed once-upon-a-time. Too many professing Christians are wrongly relying upon some kind of once-upon-a-time experience as a free pass out of Hell and a free ticket to Heaven.

 

[Dr. Walter]

We have eternal life only if we are in union with Christ. If we are in union with Christ, we manifest in our daily lives the fruit of the Spirit instead of the works of the flesh. Our relationship with Christ is a voluntary love relationship, which means that we can walk away from and end that relationship if we so choose.

To avoid condemnation, we must keep on hearing and keep on believing. It is not enough for us to have heard and believed once-upon-a-time. Too many professing Christians are wrongly relying upon some kind of once-upon-a-time experience as a free pass out of Hell and a free ticket to Heaven.

Whatever happened with "For it is God that worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" -Philip. 2:13??

Whatever happened to "Being confident of this very thing that he which has begun a good work in you will perform it until that day" - Philip. 1:6??

Whatever happened to the New Covenant PROMISE that when God puts in us a new heart and new spirit that he will "CAUSE US" to walk in his commandments? - Ezek. 36:26-27????

Whatever happened to the new birth as the CREATION of an inward man that is created in TRUE HOLINESS and RIGHTEOUSNES and ALWAYS DELIGHTS in the law of God (Eph. 4:24; Rom. 7:23)?????????

Whatever happened to God's promise to NEVER leave us or forsake us in the good and the bad? Whatever happened to Christ's promise that NOTHING in heaven or hell or in EXISTENCE (includes you) can separate the believer from the love of God?

Whatever happened to the Aorist tense declaration by Paul that "ALL" things work together for those who are "the called according to His Pupose" so that ALL who are foreknown are ALL predestined and ALL called and ALL justified and ALL glorified - Rom. 8:28-31??????

Whatever happend to Christ's unconditional promise that "OF ALL that the Father giveth me I SHALL LOSE NOTHING" - Jn. 6:39

Your position would FORCE to Christ to say "OF ALL the Father giveth me I SHALL LOSE SOME" or "I SHALL LOSE ALMOST" but it cannot agree either with the total inclusion found in the words "OF ALL" and it cannot take those words and associate them with "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING."

Your doctrine is heresy at the worst level as you make Christ a liar - Let God be true and all men be liars.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

The New Testament doctrine of union with Christ is the key to sound soteriology and sound ecclesiology. All true Christians are in union with Christ and in union with one another. They are the church, body, building, temple, fold, house, chosen generation, royal priesthood, holy nation, and peculiar people of God.

 

[DHK]

The New Testament doctrine of union with Christ is the key to sound soteriology and sound ecclesiology. All true Christians are in union with Christ and in union with one another. They are the church, body, building, temple, fold, house, chosen generation, royal priesthood, holy nation, and peculiar people of God.

I don't think you know what eccesiology is.
Who did Paul address his letters to?
Who did Christ address his letters to in the Book of Revelation, chapters two and three?

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

These letters were addressed to the one true church and body of Christ as it was made manifest in various cities. They were addressed to Christians.

Perhaps you believe these letters were addressed to the single pastor of each church, but I do not agree with this viewpoint.

 

[DHK]

These letters were addressed to the one true church and body of Christ as it was made manifest in various cities. They were addressed to Christians.

Perhaps you believe these letters were addressed to the single pastor of each church, but I do not agree with this viewpoint.

It is evident you don't take the Bible literally, which in some cases (like these) it becomes a denial of the Word of God.

 

[Dr. Walter]

These letters were addressed to the one true church and body of Christ as it was made manifest in various cities. They were addressed to Christians.

Perhaps you believe these letters were addressed to the single pastor of each church, but I do not agree with this viewpoint.

I could care less what you agree or disagree with as that does not change the obvious common sense statements of Scripture:

Ro 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Rev. 2:1 "the church of Ephesus"
Rev. 2:7 "the churches"
Rev. 2:8 "the church in Smyrna"

 

[Jedi Knight]

Jesus Christ and eternal life are so closely bound up in one that one cannot apostasize from Christ and continue to have eternal life.

A true christian cannot apostasize. John 10:5 But they will NEVER follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Never means never.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

All of these refer to the Christians who lived in these locales. These Christians were the church and body of Christ in those plaqces.

 

[DHK]

All of these refer to the Christians who lived in these locales. These Christians were the church and body of Christ in those plaqces.

Again, a plain denial of the Word of God. You live in your own fantasy world, without a shred of evidence to support it.

 

[Dr. Walter]

All of these refer to the Christians who lived in these locales. These Christians were the church and body of Christ in those plaqces.

Sure! you make a genuine revisionist of Scripture where all these texts say "the CHURCH" located you simply change the words to say "the CHRISTIANS" - how convenient. You follow the normal path of all heretics who CHANGE God's words, redefine them, ignore the exact wording to suit your belly (Rom. 16:17 - desires).

 

[Jedi Knight]

Salvation is not unconditional. .

So God demands unconditional loyalty from us....... but only gives conditional loyalty to His own.

 

[Dr. Walter]

"OF ALL that the Father hath given me I SHALL LOSE NOTHING" - Jn. 6:39

Those who deny eternal security CANNOT accept either the words or the concept demanded by these words.

They cannot accept the words or the meaning of "LOSE NOTHING" with the inclusive terms "OF ALL" because what they believe direction CONTRADICTS both the language that is used as well as the obvious meaning of the language used.

Hence, it is not a matter of a different INTERPRETATION it is a matter of total rejection of the precise language used in the mannner it is used.

"OF ALL" leaves NONE of those given by the Father out of this equation.

"LOSE NOTHING" leaves NONE out of the words "OF ALL"

However, their interpretation directly contradicts the very meaning of these words as they are placed together in one sentence to mean "OF ALL.....SOME WILL BE LOST" that are given by the Father.

The same is true with the words and tenses found in John 5:24. The perfect tense demands that the decision between eternal life and eternal death has already been completed and stands completed up to the time of speaking. The future tense "shall not come into judgement" demands that decision cannot be changed in the future due to coming before a judgement where that kind of decision will be made.

Both of these scriptures form an impossible obstacle for an honest mind to accept the doctrine of saved people becoming lost. This is especially true when the supposed proof texts used by such a theory CAN BE interpreted to harmonize with these absolute texts of prohibition of apostasy by truly saved persons.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Sure! you make a genuine revisionist of Scripture where all these texts say "the CHURCH" located you simply change the words to say "the CHRISTIANS" - how convenient. You follow the normal path of all heretics who CHANGE God's words, redefine them, ignore the exact wording to suit your belly (Rom. 16:17 - desires).

Look at how the word "church" is used in Acts 8:1,3. Here, it obviously refers to Christians in Jerusalem, not to some man-made organization like the one you pastor.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Look at how the word "church" is used in Acts 8:1,3. Here, it obviously refers to Christians in Jerusalem, not to some man-made organization like the one you pastor.

The Christians were scattered out FROM THE CHURCH in Jerusalem. The news of Antioch came to the ears "of the church IN Jerusalem" - Acts 11:22

You don't have a legitimate case - give it up!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

HP: DW tries to make this passage walk on all four legs in support of a system of necessity know as OSAS, the heart and soul of Calvinism. There are some important factors to consider that evidently DW has not considered. The first glaring thing that stands out to me is the notion of the ‘will of Him” or the will of God. God wills many things, including the salvation of all, 2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” When this passage speaks of the will of God ‘willing’ that every one that ‘seeth the Son and believeth’ may have eternal life, that in no wise is paramount to OSAS or that all that come to Him will persevere in faith until the end. Again, God’s will, in reality, does not necessitate salvation, but is an expression of His desire which some times is not accomplished when it comes to sentient moral beings exercising a free will. The only way this passage supports OSAS is if one applies such a presupposition to the passage as a lenses by which to interpret it.

Secondly, DW consistently and without fail merely begs the question of the manner in which those come to Him. DW insists on God as a first cause, necessitating the outcome. Again, that is absolutely contradictory to God not being a respecter of persons. The only end to the argument of DW is that if in fact God is the first cause of salvation, in that salvation is a necessitated action of the will of God upon the chosen elect, (man being only a puppet receptor of election) is the absurdity of Calvinistic double predestination, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. No DW, you are far gone from the truth in your interpretation of this passage. You may be ignorant of your own devices, but you are allowing an unproven presupposition of OSAS drive your conclusions and as such arrive a conclusions far from the truth.