Eternally Begotten of the Father....or not.

[percho]

Thank you for clarifying. That helps me understand your view of the Word as being eternally the Son (and I agree).

With the Son being "begotten",since you are looking to the resurrection rather than the Incarnation, are you then referring to this as Christ being the "Firstborn"?

IYO

Does, τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸνμονογενῆ, the son of him, the only begotten, John 3:16 refer to resurrection, incarnation through woman or something else?

 

[JonC]

IYO

Does, τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸνμονογενῆ, the son of him, the only begotten, John 3:16 refer to resurrection, incarnation through woman or something else?

I can see how it could refer to John 1 (and therefore be "eternally begotten"), but I believe it is referring to the Incarnation. I do not think it refers to the Resurrection because it is focusing on God's giving (or God's giving love), but at the same time that belief in God's Son includes the Resurrection (that we may have everlasting life).

 

[HankD]

After that, was the spirit of the Son in the power of the Son or the power of the Father?

Both.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Did time pass by before the Christ was quickened again to Spirit? What Spirit?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[percho]

I can see how it could refer to John 1 (and therefore be "eternally begotten"), but I believe it is referring to the Incarnation. I do not think it refers to the Resurrection because it is focusing on God's giving (or God's giving love), but at the same time that belief in God's Son includes the Resurrection (that we may have everlasting life).

I personally believe that, virgin woman, (she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man Gen 2:23), was absolutely necessary for Logos < the very heart and intent of Spirit the God, the Father, John 4:24,25 'elohiym ) to come in the flesh. 1 John 4:2,3

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 'elohiym (A plural noun) The LORD Jehovah
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. That in bold literally, I shall become who I am becoming. See first para.

Jesus said, I Am, that is Christ the Lord

Is, I Am a fulfillment of I Am that I Am or I shall be who I am becoming?

Consider: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Also
Psa 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Matt 22:32-46 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

 

[percho]

Both.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.


1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

See my post that followed this.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Pro 8:22 KJV - The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 KJV - I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 KJV - When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 KJV - Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 KJV - While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 KJV - When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 KJV - When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 KJV - When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 KJV - Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him]: and I was daily [his] delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 KJV - Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights [were] with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 KJV - Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed [are they that] keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 KJV - Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 KJV - Blessed [is] the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 KJV - For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 KJV - But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

The one who figures out where God came from will no doubt know where the Son originated. For me, I take it on faith from God.

 

[percho]

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; Gal 1:1
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you Rom 8:11
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:32,33

How are these to be understood?

 

[37818]

ἐξέρχομαι
metaph.

1. to go out of an assembly, i.e. forsake it
   
   
2. to come forth from physically, arise from, to be born of
   
   
3. to go forth from one's power, escape from it in safety
   
   
4. to come forth (from privacy) into the world, before the public, (of those who by novelty of opinion attract attention)
   
   
5. of things

Matt 1:20 ταῦτα δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐνθυμηθέντος ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου κατ᾽ ὄναρ ἐφάνηαὐτῷ λέγων Ἰωσὴφ υἱὸς Δαβὶδ μὴ φοβηθῇς παραλαβεῖν Μαριὰμ τὴνγυναῖκά σου τὸ γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ Πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου


γεννηθὲν < How are we to understand that word relative to proceeding from the Father?

? Father?

γεννηθὲν is only grammaramicly used once in the NT, Matthew 1:20, ". . . But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. . . ."

This Greek word γεννάω is used in the NT 65 times.

Grammaramicaly three times as γεγεννηκα being translated "begotten" referring solely to the bodily resurrected Son of God, Acts of the Apostles 13:33; Hebrews 1:5; Hebrews 5:5,

 

[37818]

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; Gal 1:1
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you Rom 8:11
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:32,33

How are these to be understood?

Jesus as the man. See -Timothy 2:5, Except in Acts of the Apostles 13:33 makes reference to Him as the Son of God as the man being raised from the dead.

 

[37818]

Pro 8:22 KJV - The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 KJV - I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 KJV - When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 KJV - Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 KJV - While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 KJV - When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 KJV - When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 KJV - When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 KJV - Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him]: and I was daily [his] delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 KJV - Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights [were] with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 KJV - Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed [are they that] keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 KJV - Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 KJV - Blessed [is] the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 KJV - For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 KJV - But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

The one who figures out where God came from will no doubt know where the Son originated. For me, I take it on faith from God.

In Proverbs 8:22, ". . . The LORD . . ." refers to none other than the Son of God (John 1:3; John 1:10).