Eternity in heaven?

[npetreley]

Just a moment here, but I want to ask: If it's merely semantic, why would God obscure the issue by using two different expressions?

God didn't use two different expressions. It's the same word, translated different ways. I suspect (just a guess) that it was translated "born again" in many translations because it makes more sense in the context of the reaction of Nicodemus. Assuming Nicodemus heard "born from above", he no doubt wondered how he could be born again from above, since he was already born once. He was thinking physically, not spiritually. "How do I get born from above? Do I have to to back into my mother's womb and get born a different way, now?"

I find that various translations obscure these or those passages all the time. Translators make judgement calls, and they don't always get things right (or they're more or less right, but not as literal as they should be). And, as I've pointed out elsewhere, publishers change things against the wishes of translators in order to make their Bibles sell more.

 

[Hope of Glory]

God didn't use two different expressions. It's the same word, translated different ways.

Umm... What text are you reading?

John 3:3 has "γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν" (born from above), and 1 Peter 1:3 has "ἀναγεννήσας" (regenerated).

God uses two different expressions to convey two different, but similar, ideas.

[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 1:3-5tells us,"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (who begot us from above), which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Notice in verse 3, it is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who begot us again unto a living hope. For him to have begotten us again, the Father had to have begotten us before and that was when we were born from above in John 3:3. Again, there are two beginnings in this verse. One from above and the other is unto a living hope. And what is that new beginning? What is the hope of a Christian?[/FONT]

 

[ituttut]

ituttut: You then asked question number 2, "Will our bodies be made over new?" I then answered with I Corinthians 15:50. This verse tells us we will not enter in the "Kingdom of God" in these current bodies that are made to return to dust again. Evidently we are raised or caught up in New Bodies.
__________________

BB: The reason for these two questions is the first question proves we are the earth, earthly. The second question suggests that our new bodies being the "new earth". I am sure you probably will not agree with that, but thought I would throw it out there anyway.

No, can't see it your way, if we are still earthbound in what will be made new. We were bodily raised long before the "new earth" comes into existence. But also the promise of the earth was never given we today.

1Corth; 15:
36: Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39: All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40: There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41: There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The same "it" but changed to a spiritual and celestrial body.

When we use scripture we find truth, and in understanding we can then see clearly. We are as Paul says, heavenly- I Corinthians 15:48.

Sorry, I just caught that you believe as I do on this. Maybe it will help someone else.

Yes, more light is always a big help.

To be honest about the earth, I am not expecting to live on this earth again after death. I believe God's whole family will be in Heaven where God is. When you bring up about "end times" as if we going to live here again, then you lose me for I see that we will accend upwards to meet the Lord in the air and everly be with Him.

Dear friend, you misread my post/s, as in the above. Wish I could better explain myself, but I endeavor to back up my belief with scripture. If you read any of the thousands of posts I made, and can find anything I have written, you will find it points the way to heaven, and not the earth. Promises made are promises kept by God.

God's Son says we are His in the Spirit, which looks to be sons of God in the making, i.e. if we can believe two that have seen heaven, John and Paul. John could tell us about all, and Paul not near as much outside of this dispensation that God had hid. Perhaps what Paul could not tell us, God saved for John to tell us, as he tarried. But they both tell us we are sons of God. But Old Testament saints under the covenant were promised the earth, and not the heavenlies. Also please notice the earthly Apostles are promised their own "kingdom" that Jesus gives to them.

 

[TCGreek]

Where do we get the idea scripturally that the redeemed will dwell in heaven for eternity? I see us at best, waiting temporarily in heaven for our new bodies and for the redemption of the earth, then coming back with Christ to reign over a new heaven and earth from Jerusalem.

I really don't see much in scripture at all about spending eternity in heaven.

I understand 1 Thess 4:17 to teach "eternity in heaven." Am I missing something? What does Paul mean when he says that our citizenship is in heaven? Phil. 3:20. How should we understand "citizenship"?

 

[npetreley]

John 3:3 has "γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν" (born from above), and 1 Peter 1:3 has "ἀναγεννήσας" (regenerated).

Sorry, I guess I got lost where we were in the conversation. I thought you were referring to "born again" vs. "born from above". The word translated "again" is the same word translated "from the top" and "from above" in other verses.

 

[skypair]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope of Glory
Just a moment here, but I want to ask: If it's merely semantic, why would God obscure the issue by using two different expressions?

Hope, you could be right but I doubt it. Why upon hearing the term "born from above" would Nicodemus immediately talk about returning to his mother's womb??

However, we do know one thing about the OT saints like Nicodemus -- when the are born again, it will be from "above." The angels will bring their souls and spirits to their graves and the Spirit will resurrect them and gather them to Jesus' MK thrones.

skypair

 

[Hope of Glory]

The word translated "again" is the same word translated "from the top" and "from above" in other verses.

That was the exact point that I made somewhere earlier in this thread. That John 3:3 is from above, not again.

 

[npetreley]

That was the exact point that I made somewhere earlier in this thread. That John 3:3 is from above, not again.

Like I said, sorry. I got mixed up somewhere. I'm not surprised, I have a lot on my mind.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Like I said, sorry. I got mixed up somewhere. I'm not surprised, I have a lot on my mind.

Well, your picture looks like you have more than a "lot" on your mind! (Your avatar.)

I think it's important that God saw fit to include two different expressions, although they have been translated the same in the KJV. I see people using "regenerated" (which is correct for the word in 1 Peter) synonymously with "born from above", and it leads to all sorts of confusing (and often contradictory) doctrines, such as (but not limited to) baptismal regeneration.

 

[npetreley]

Well, your picture looks like you have more than a "lot" on your mind! (Your avatar.)

:laugh: That's Daggett Beaver from a long-since-cancelled Nickelodeon cartoon show called Angry Beavers. It was my favorite cartoon of all time. Very clever, '60s retro themes, incredible voice-acting. But it was too geared to adults rather than kids, so they cancelled it. I don't mean it had "adult" (as in "for mature audiences only") humor, but a lot of humor that only people in my generation would understand, like spoofs on the Beatles, spoofs on '50s sci-fi b-movies, etc.

 

[Lacy Evans]

:laugh: That's Daggett Beaver from a long-since-cancelled Nickelodeon cartoon show called Angry Beavers.

When I first looked at it, I thought it was Captian Caveman.

Lacy

 

[Brother Bob]

Shame it took you all 1600 years to say the eternity is here on earth.
Go ahead and stay here, I am going to where God is. "My Father, which art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven.
If you are not part of the eathly Kingdom now, it will be too late then. "My Kingdom is within you". He shall reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet and the last enemy to be destroyed is death. New Earth, what is your bodies now except the old earth, will you get a new one?

Jhn 18:36Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1Cr 15:24Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


Do you know what UP is?

 

[fear of the lord]

Where do we get the idea scripturally that the redeemed will dwell in heaven for eternity? I see us at best, waiting temporarily in heaven for our new bodies and for the redemption of the earth, then coming back with Christ to reign over a new heaven and earth from Jerusalem.

I really don't see much in scripture at all about spending eternity in heaven.

Lacy

Has anyone addressed the fact that Genesis (which is the foundation on which we should build biblical doctrine) tells that God created us to replenish,subdue,and have dominion over the Earth.!At what point did that design change?God being all knowing knew how sin would come into the world yet when it happens he says "You guys messed up real bad now I have to send my Son to die so you won't spend ages upon ages in the lake of fire,and ya'll are going to come hang with me in the third heaven that whole Earth thing didn't really have a purpose it was where I wanted you but oh well!These were some of the question I asked as a teenage yet untill I was shown the kingdom no doctrine I looked at answered my questions of which I still have many ,but now that I know God restored the Earth in six days and rested on the seventh and is restoring man in six thousand and will rest on the seventh day which is the kingdom I find scripture supporting it self not contridicting.

 

[Brother Bob]

The Jewish nation is still looking for the Messiah and His Kingdom.

Hebrew. 12:

22: But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23: To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24: And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25: See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27: And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28: Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

 

[Lacy Evans]

1Cr 15:24Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


Do you know what UP is?

Naw! Why don't you go ahead and explain it to me.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Numbers 21:3 And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.


Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.


2 Samuel 18:28 And Ahimaaz called, and said unto the king, All is well. And he fell down to the earth upon his face before the king, and said, Blessed be the Lord thy God, which hath delivered up the men that lifted up their hand against my lord the king.


Amos 1:9 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Tyrus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they delivered up the whole captivity to Edom, and remembered not the brotherly covenant:


Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

You were saying?

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:


Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Numbers 21:3 And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.


Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.


2 Samuel 18:28 And Ahimaaz called, and said unto the king, All is well. And he fell down to the earth upon his face before the king, and said, Blessed be the Lord thy God, which hath delivered up the men that lifted up their hand against my lord the king.


Amos 1:9 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Tyrus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they delivered up the whole captivity to Edom, and remembered not the brotherly covenant:


Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Lacy, I expected a better response than that from you. There is a whole big bunch of difference from being delivered up from the earth, from your enemies etc, than to deliver up the Kingdom all the way to Heaven where God is, surely you can come up with a better answer than that?

 

[Lacy Evans]

Lacy, I expected a better response than that from you. There is a whole big bunch of difference from being delivered up from the earth, from your enemies etc, than to deliver up the Kingdom all the way to Heaven where God is, surely you can come up with a better answer than that?

Point being "Delivered Up" has nothing to do with direction. That's just silly. They weren't being "delivered up" from their enemies. They were being "delivered up" TO their enemies. It means to be "presented to", or "handed over to"

Absolutely nothing to do with direction.

After the MK, Christ the Son will hand over the Kingdom to Father God. That's when this happens

Revelation 21:1-3
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Lacy

You do know which way DOWN is don't you?

Love, Lacy

 

[Hope of Glory]

Lacy,

You may as well give it up...

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself on this one. I will repent later.)

 

[skypair]

Point being "Delivered Up" has nothing to do with direction. That's just silly.

I think not. Look at Rev 20:11 -- "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;..." This is the rapture of the MK saints straight up to heaven -- the Son on the throne delivering His earthly kingdom UP to the Father -- so that God can renew the earth. Then the kingdom of Christ comes down in NJ presenting God with His bride, Israel!!

After the MK, Christ the Son will hand over the Kingdom to Father God. That's when this happens.

Well, there you go. You knew about the "delivery" but not about the direction! :laugh:

skypair