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The point is Brother 12strings is that w/o God choosing His Son to die for us, none would be saved. Now that He accomplished the will of His Father, the "whosoevers" can be saved, those who believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them which diligently seek Him(Heb. 11:6).

 

Haha Winman:laugh: your thread has been hijacked! So, I second your OP and your two other subsequent posts in effect asking people to address the OP.

 

Sorry for the hijacking...Here's an attempt to address the OP:

1. It seems that there are scriptures in which some people can believe themselves to be saved, but not be. (those who will cry "Lord, Lord," to Jesus, but he will say "I never knew you."...or the Jews paul prays for in romans 10:1-3, who had a zeal for God, but because they would not accept God's righteousness, and tried to establish their own, pauls says he is praying for their salvation.)

2. It also seems that there are places in scripture that God hardens people into their chosen path of rebellion:
-2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. (NASB)
-Pharoah,
-Romans 1: God "gave them over" to their sinful desires.

3. The question is, is it unreasonable, or unbiblical to think there is NVERLAP between these two groups of people: Those who mistakenly believe they are saved, and those who God has "hardened, given over, or deluded"? I don't think it is unreasonable to believe there is some overlap.


4. Regarding your last question, a calvinists knows he is one of the elect just like anybody else knows: By examining himself ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES that warn us in certain ways:
-1 Cor. 16:22 - Do I Love the Lord?
-Rom. 10:1-4 - Is my passion for the Lord based on true knowledge, that is, Am I attempting to trust in my own righteousness, or that of Christ?
-1 John - Does my life reflect love for God and neighbor, and a desire to obey God's commands?

5. If I were one of those deluded into thinking I was saved when I was not, then I would not be willing to submit myself to these, and other, scriptural tests by which we are told to examine ourselves.

 

If someone believes they are saved, and aren't, then the natural question is, why so?

How did he arrive at this belief? He didn't just make it up. He came to that belief from another source, obviously.

It could have been a tract; it could have been a preacher; it could have been a friend's opinion which he heeded.

Ah, one might say, but I'm Baptist and we Baptists told them the right way to be saved. It's repentance toward God and faith the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yep. But how did you get them to that point? Did you tell them to "pray this prayer?" Did you tell them to "come to Christ" down at the front of the auditorium where you were? Did you urge them to "step out from that pew?" Did you tell them to "meet me at the altar?" Did they hear "you need to get baptized?"

Is it possible that they heard that and equated any or all of those things with being saved?

I can tell you the answer is yes more than we think. I know of at least two people who are relying on that. Ask one if she has hope of heaven, her answer is "But I said the prayer."

Ask another or my acquaintances and his answer is "I walked the aisle."

In other words, it's what I did, or what I said.

We need to be certain that we point the lost in the right direction, because if they believe a lie, it's likely they heard it from someone else.

Let's make sure they don't hear it from us.

 

By the way, here's as good exercise:

Give your salvation testimony without ever using "I".

That's probably another separate thread, but think about it.

 

God called, God convicted, and God converted a sinner from his wicked ways. Lookie there, no "I's" in my salvation story.



I call this the "three C's" in salvation. Not saying that I created this, but I have never read, or heard it before, so I will take the credit/blame for it....:laugh:

 

satan has blinded the hearts and minds of those under his kingdom, and ONLY the Lord intervening to bring them out of that and unto Kingdom of Christ is our only hope!

And the lost who are blinded do NOT have the inner witnessing from/of the Holy Spirit that they are the child of God, nor do they have the means to perceive and know the true Jesus, as they cannot "hear his voice!"

 

Aw right! That's a good start.

By the way, you can use "me," since we are all objects of God's acts of illumination, conviction, regeneration and conversion.

 

see post #23

 

I love using I in my salvation.

I sinned. I owe a debt for my sin, death. I can not pay my debt and be saved. I am a responsible free agent for my sin and without the shedding of blood there will be no forgiveness. Jesus paid the debt of sin.

If I do nothing with this am I saved?

Romans 11 :
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

 

Amen, Brother, amen!!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Very good and point taken. Being lost was all on you..

Now take it from there. Tell me about your salvation experience. Without using I.

 

If I does nothing with the faith given is I saved?

 

Naw, you isn't.

ROFL

 

If "I" does nothing with the faith given is "I" saved?

The quotation marks is your "I"

 

I agree with this post and will go on to say that it can even take place after resurrection through judgement.

As in Adam all die so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
And as it is appointed unto men once, to die, but after this the judgment:

 

Hebrews 11 :
1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

Genesis 3 :
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[Or seed] and hers;
he will crush[Or strike] your head,
and you will strike his heel.

Genesis 12:
3I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you. ”[Or earth / will use your name in blessings (see 48:20)]

John 8:
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”



Hebrews 11:
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth

Luke 16 :
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”



John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


Hebrews 11:
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.