Evangelicals and RCC working together

[Cathode]

Exactly. And the same is with Jesus being bread (the Bread of Life) and Wine.

At the Supper Jesus was speaking metaphorically, indicating participation in a covenant (a new covenant).

Catholicism is a blend of Christianity and Roman paganism. This was necessary as Catholicism came about as the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as it's official religion, going to the extent of compelling those within the Empire to convert.

We see the same everytime religion is forced in a people. They reach back to claim a history that does not belong to them and develop a sect that is an amalgamation of Christianity and the original pagan faith.

We see this with the Hebrew religion leading up to the Hasmonean Dynasty, with the Catholic Church, with earlier Christianity in Ireland, with Christianity in parts of Latin America, and with Christianity in a sect of Louisiana (as examples).


But to your question - Jesus is present in Communion. But the point is not Jesus being there in a unique way. It is Christians participating as a testimony to Him, to His blood shed and His body broken as a new covenant. The point is the Christians part in the Covenant.

People say Catholicism has “ Roman paganism “ in it, but never seem to point out where it is.

I think you will find it very Jewish, or more particularly akin to Israelites in its practices.

 

[JonC]

People say Catholicism has “ Roman paganism “ in it, but never seem to point out where it is.

I think you will find it very Jewish, or more particularly akin to Israelites in its practices.

It is in several places. In regards to this discussion it is in the Roman pagan practice of partaking of the host.

I have read several Catholic apologists explaining that God purified pagan ritual (that this is common throughout Scripture as well). There are pagan accounts of the flood, pagan prophecies of a Messiah born of a virgin, etc.

The issue is that these things were pagan religions following Hebrew beliefs (or at minimum ambiguity, as with the flood).

But the idea that men eating of meat and drinking wine, actually eating of flesh and drank of blood of a god, was in Roman paganism before Christianity.

This found its expression in the early church as Christians refused to participate in paganism (Rome had no issue with Christianity with the Roman religion....the issue was rejecting Roman paganism).

 

[JonC]

You nailed it!!!

Only if one ignores Christ's words about the New Covenant and the Kingdom.

I actually have no issue with Roman superstition here. People have their traditions.

 

[Cathode]

Then why isn't the RCC ex-excommunicating every RC politician who votes for abortion?

They are excommunicated Ipso facto, by the very fact they support this sin.

However the Catholic Church will officially excommunicate someone, if they believe that by such action, it will draw that person to repent and change their behaviour.
If they are obstinate and harden their hearts, then there is no point to it, they have made their choice.

 

[Cathode]

It is in several places. In regards to this discussion it is in the Roman pagan practice of partaking of the host.

I have read several Catholic apologists explaining that God purified pagan ritual (that this is common throughout Scripture as well). There are pagan accounts of the flood, pagan prophecies of a Messiah born of a virgin, etc.

The issue is that these things were pagan religions following Hebrew beliefs (or at minimum ambiguity, as with the flood).

But the idea that men eating of meat and drinking wine, actually eating of flesh and drank of blood of a god, was in Roman paganism before Christianity.

This found its expression in the early church as Christians refused to participate in paganism (Rome had no issue with Christianity with the Roman religion....the issue was rejecting Roman paganism).

Again, you don’t have receipts, just conjecture.

The Eucharist has very Jewish, Apostolic and scriptural roots, The Paschal Lamb had to be eaten, Jesus Our Paschal Lamb consecrated the bread and wine into His Body and Blood, and told them to eat and drink them.

This is what we do in Faith and obedience to Jesus commands, and the fulfilment of Scripture, both old and new.

 

[JonC]

Again, you don’t have receipts, just conjecture.

The Eucharist has very Jewish, Apostolic and scriptural roots, The Paschal Lamb had to be eaten, Jesus Our Paschal Lamb consecrated the bread and wine into His Body and Blood, and told them to eat and drink them.

This is what we do in Faith and obedience to Jesus commands, and the fulfilment of Scripture, both old and new.

No. Roman paganism contained the Roman Catholic formula of the Eucharist.

The Paschal Lamb is akin to Communion (foreshadowing the New Covenant).

But Roman Catholicism is a mixture of Roman paganism and Christianity which occurred when Rome (which was pagan) adopted Christianity as it's religion.

And that's fine. Most here are Protestants who carried over Roman Catholic paganism into their traditions as well. It does not change their status in Christ.

 

[Cathode]

So my uncle was excommunicated?!? What is the view of the RCC on that? Is it now that your being punished, you are banished from the one true church thus you are resigned to hell… pretty punitive don’t you think?

Well it’s how the Apostles handled those who rejected their teaching and authority, and those who succeeded the Apostles through the laying on of hands.
The Scriptural Apostolic Church has real authority to bind and loose, and to teach and guide in Truth.
Those who put themselves outside that Truth, are in no small peril.

People choose this, rejecting the truth brings its own punishments.

 

[Cathode]

No. Roman paganism contained the Roman Catholic formula of the Eucharist.

The Paschal Lamb is akin to Communion (foreshadowing the New Covenant).

But Roman Catholicism is a mixture of Roman paganism and Christianity which occurred when Rome (which was pagan) adopted Christianity as it's religion.

And that's fine. Most here are Protestants who carried over Roman Catholic paganism into their traditions as well. It does not change their status in Christ.

You are still making assertions without evidence. Where is the specific “ Roman paganism “?

 

[Cathode]

We see the prefigurement of The Eucharist in the Old Testament

“This bread of the Presence was 1) made of fine flour, 2) baked in 12 loaves, 3) arranged in two piles of six loaves each on a table of pure gold, 4) covered with frankincense, and 5) served as a memorial food offering to the Lord. The bread could only be eaten by Aaron and his sons in a holy place and was set out every Sabbath day (Leviticus 24:8–9).

The bread of the Presence is first mentioned in Exodus 25:30. God instructed for it to be placed on the golden table in the tabernacle. The bread is also listed in the contributions for the tabernacle in Exodus 35:13 and noted as part of the completed tabernacle in Exodus 39:36. In Numbers 4 the Kohathites, who were sons of Levi, were given responsibility for the care of the table of showbread.”

Catholics keep the Eucharist in the Tabernacle as well.

This is the true Bread of the Presence.

This is the origin of genuine worship handed down from Old Covenant to New Covenant.

 

[Cathode]

The Bread of the Presence was called the Bread of the Face of God.

It was permanently kept in the Temple Tabernacle , but when it was removed it was veiled. Catholics have veils in the Tabernacle.

But once a year the Priests would remove the Bread, and raise it up before the people, saying “ Behold, God’s Love for you “

The Bread of the Presence was not just a sign of God’s continuing Presence, it was also an unbloody Sacrifice, as incense was burnt before it, only sacrifices had incense burning before it.
It was a permanent offering and sacrifice to God in The Tabernacle.

The Bread of the Presence had a continually burning candle, signifying the Presence of God. Catholics have the same before the Eucharist.

Catholic and Israelite worship. Nothing pagan at all.

Behold, God’s Love for you.

 

[JonC]

You are still making assertions without evidence. Where is the specific “ Roman paganism “?

???? It was common in Roman paganism. I don't get your question.

One example is Mithraism. There are the fertility cults. There are records in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Is this the first time you have encountered Roman paganism involving eating meat and drinking wine which was the flesh and blood of a god?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They are excommunicated Ipso facto, by the very fact they support this sin.

However the Catholic Church will officially excommunicate someone, if they believe that by such action, it will draw that person to repent and change their behaviour.

Each time a person receives communion in that state, it compounds their punishment in a way that is beyond imagining either here or in eternity.

Good to know that Biden will burn in hell… but the RCC is viewed as a hypocritical organization that has no backbone. One wonders why anyone would legitimize them as any representative of Christ… nobody should have anything to do with them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

???? It was common in Roman paganism. I don't get your question.

One example is Mithraism. There are the fertility cults. There are records in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Is this the first time you have encountered Roman paganism involving eating meat and drinking wine which was the flesh and blood of a god?

LOL … Jon, how dare you suggest that the ‘ROMAN’ Catholic Church has traces of paganism inculcated in ritual… that’s a no no. Especially to one who is so invested in the RCC being ‘the one true apostolic Church of Christ’. The accusations of paganism is anathema even though true… they will never admit it. Pretzel logic, pure and simple.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yeah, I experienced something beyond description a few years ago. It changed my life. And the first thing I thought of was the conversation you referred to between Jesus and Nicodemus. I see things differently now than before I was born again.

That sounds like a really cool experience. I'm glad you're still learning, too! That's what we have to do. God likes it when we learn more about him. It doesn't matter where we are at in our journey. There's so much for us to learn every day.

Amen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They are excommunicated Ipso facto, by the very fact they support this sin.

However the Catholic Church will officially excommunicate someone, if they believe that by such action, it will draw that person to repent and change their behaviour.

Each time a person receives communion in that state, it compounds their punishment in a way that is beyond imagining either here or in eternity.

It’s a sure thing they use excommunication as a tool to eradicate competitive actions however they have no means to Rein in their people who kill children. My mother, God rest her soul, would call you pipsqueaks.

Tell me, do you banish those who harm children or do you issue a special pass like you do for slaughtering the innocent?

 

[Cathode]

???? It was common in Roman paganism. I don't get your question.

One example is Mithraism. There are the fertility cults. There are records in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Is this the first time you have encountered Roman paganism involving eating meat and drinking wine which was the flesh and blood of a god?

You are completely ignoring the obvious link between Catholic and Israelite worship, and making spurious claims about paganry, that isn’t there.
These are speculative assertions with prejudice as a premise not evidence.
It shows no actual link, it feverishly hopes for one.
Pagans drank water as well so...., Hitler drank water so....

How about some historical contemporary quotes of Mithraism being used and included in the Church Fathers Eucharist.

Otherwise it’s just a prejudiced surmise.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Being a Mason is incompatible with the Christian faith. The Masons teach a naturalistic religion that espouses indifferentism, the position that a person can be equally pleasing to God while remaining in any religion.

Masonry is a parallel religion to Christianity. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states, “Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, the promise of reward or punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and initiation and burial rites.”

This is why all bible believing Lutheran synods ban members of lodges from receiving communion just like the Catholic Church. BTW, Mormons do a lot of really good things for the community.

Then there is credibility in the Mormons love for there fellow human beings. I applaud them.

 

[Cathode]

LOL … Jon, how dare you suggest that the ‘ROMAN’ Catholic Church has traces of paganism inculcated in ritual… that’s a no no. Especially to one who is so invested in the RCC being ‘the one true apostolic Church of Christ’. The accusations of paganism is anathema even though true… they will never admit it. Pretzel logic, pure and simple.

It’s not true, it’s false witness in anyone’s denomination.

 

[Cathode]

Then there is credibility in the Mormons love for there fellow human beings.

Like you perhaps.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Like you perhaps.

I don’t identify as Roman Catholic… I do as a Child of God. And what is His nature… study Christ and see.