Evolution in any form in the Bible?

[OldRegular]

Creyn

I owe you an apology. It seemed to me that you were unnecessarily beating a dead horse over the issue of Adam's age. That being said my response was out of line and unnecessarily harsh so I sincerely apologize.

OldRegular

 

[Jim1999]

I don't know about billions of years, but what about extra-biblical theistic evolution? Just maybe there is a gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2....maybe.

What about all the historical periods not explained in scripture?

What about the skips in genealogies listed in scripture?

What about the details about people and events not shown in scripture?

What about other created being not in the listed biblical areas?

The Bible is the story of redemption, and not a complete science or history text. Hence it deals primarily with God's people of the time and not all people's.

We don't have some mystical appearance of people out of animals of any sort. We just try to understand the world beyond the world of Israel. Are we so wrong?

If I denied the scriptures and especially my God, I would be the one first to repent and beg for my Sovereign's mercy, but I don't. I just happen to believe theistic evolution provides me with some answers to scientific facts which have revealed themselves over time. Simple as that.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[annsni]

The issue to me, Jim, is that the Bible says that God created the world in 6 days. Because these are days with ordinal numbers, they don't mean ages or eons or anything - they mean days. So going with that, when we say that there are gaps or the days are not really days, then we are saying that God's Word is not true. That's a dangerous place to be.

 

[matt wade]

What about other created being not in the listed biblical areas?

Care to elaborate?

 

[annsni]

There is a very interesting blog entry from Al Mohler today about evolution.

Here's the link:

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=3300

 

[OldRegular]

There is a very interesting blog entry from Al Mohler today about evolution.

Here's the link:

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=3300

Dr. Mohler as usual gets to the heart of the problem with his concluding statement:

The conflict between Genesis and evolution is not merely over the "how" as opposed to the "why" of creation. Evolution presents a direct challenge to the entire story-line of the Bible. Efforts to resolve this challenge generally involve a misunderstanding of biblical Christianity, a misunderstanding of evolution, or a misunderstanding of both.

In an effort to reconcile the Bible with evolutionary faith some envisioned the now discredited "Gap Theory", others have bought into theistic evolution, an oxymoron. Others have shown a lack of understanding of evolution attempting to limit it to biological evolution while the evolutionist will insist that evolution includes the formation of the universe and all it contains.

The truth is that evolutionary faith is anti God and anti Christian, period.

 

[Jim1999]

I shall leave the anti-God and anti-Christianity thing up to my Lord. I know in Whom I have believed and preached over 60 years.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[OldRegular]

I shall leave the anti-God and anti-Christianity thing up to my Lord. I know in Whom I have believed and preached over 60 years.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim

I appreciate and enjoy your posts even when I think you are incorrect. You always respond in the manner that I and many others need to use on this Forum.

I would never question the faith of one who believes in theistic evolution. However, I believe it is false and in time will have a devastating affect on the Church. I am not sure but that statement may be in conflict with my belief in the doctrine of election and the Sovereignty of God in salvation.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Gen. chapter 1 says God created and if you look the order of creation it is from the simple to the complex ... same as evolution.

The issue to me, Jim, is that the Bible says that God created the world in 6 days. Because these are days with ordinal numbers, they don't mean ages or eons or anything - they mean days. So going with that, when we say that there are gaps or the days are not really days, then we are saying that God's Word is not true. That's a dangerous place to be.

The word "day" has meanings other than 24 hours.

Just comments to think about. Not arguing.

 

[Jim1999]

We have an argument with the early fundamentalists, including C.I. Scofield, who had difficulty with absolute creation, so they created a "gap theory" between Gen 1:1-1:2. This was not a problem for over 100 years, and remains a teaching even to-day for those who adhere to the Scofield reference Bible.

Theistic evolution does not deny the divine act of creation, nor the biblical teaching. It deals with extra biblical events established in history and in science. Not all science is anti-God, and there are areas that need explanation. For me, theistic evolution provides some of those answers.

One of the best sytematic theologians, A.H. Strong, a Baptist professor and author of a Systematic Theology text, which was commonly used in evangelical schools for years for its sound theology,,,,,,,even if the students were warned about his "Theistic evolution".

Do I believe man evolved from a monkey? Of course not. Even the monkeys would revolt at that thought.

There have been many fossils identified much older than the biblical years, which by the way were calculated and added to subesquent scriptures by a Bishop.

How do we account for such things as the dinosaurs of Southern Alberta, Canada?

Read more about Adam and adam...Two different things. Adam the man, and adam, humanity created by God.

How long after Adam was created was Eve taken from his side? You might be amazed at how many have them created side by each.

Think about all the chores the man Adam was given before Eve was created...Genesis tells us that he was given the job of naming ALL the animals..Not a small task, I can tell you.

Most of my churches wouldn't know of my beliefs in this area. There was no reason to teach it or mention it in preaching. I kept my pulpit for the gospel and other theological truths. During he days of modernism, as we knew it, I preached strongly against atheistic evolution.

Later I attended one of the most liberal schools in the USA. I wasn't fully aware at the time, but I had to defend the evangelical faith there, and I am not about to name drop, but I sat under the strongest liberals of the time, and I stood my ground. So, my faith and theology is strong. You cannot shake me by calling me questionable names. I am too old and too solid in my beliefs.

I have one word. Don't be too quick to condemn. Stand firm in what you truly believe, but don't be afraid to give benefit of doubt to a fellow sojourner.

Cheers, and bless,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

Gen. chapter 1 says God created and if you look the order of creation it is from the simple to the complex ... same as evolution.



The word "day" has meanings other than 24 hours.

Just comments to think about. Not arguing.

But just because creatures were created from the simple to the complex does not mean they evolved from each other (one species evolving to another species) which is what evolution teaches. Evolution seems to be an attack on how God says He created.

Also, the word "day" in Gen. 1 is defined as having a morning and evening, which indicates a day as we know it, and not a long period of time. I realize the sun was not created until the 4th day; however, God could still provide light another way. If God says there was morning and evening before the sun was created, I believe it. I believe this indicates that the 24 hour day was created at the beginning, and it was in these 6 days that creation was completed.

Additionally, God repeats the statement that he created in 6 days in Exodus.

 

[Jim1999]

How many years is Moses removed from Adam, the man?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Crabtownboy]

But just because creatures were created from the simple to the complex does not mean they evolved from each other (one species evolving to another species) which is what evolution teaches. Evolution seems to be an attack on how God says He created.

The reverse is also true. However, no where does the Bible say that evolution is either true or false, just as it does not say that creationsim, as understood today, is true or false.

Also, the word "day" in Gen. 1 is defined as having a morning and evening, which indicates a day as we know it, and not a long period of time. I realize the sun was not created until the 4th day; however, God could still provide light another way. If God says there was morning and evening before the sun was created, I believe it. I believe this indicates that the 24 hour day was created at the beginning, and it was in these 6 days that creation was completed.

As I said there are many meanings that can be fit into these verses. For instance in the morning until evening of his life he was curious would surely mean more than 24 hours. To say that day means 24 literal hours is an article of faith. I have no problem with it or with it being millions of years as we understand time. God did it and that is what is important.

Additionally, God repeats the statement that he created in 6 days in Exodus.

Again the word "day" can have many meanings.

 

[Marcia]

The reverse is also true. However, no where does the Bible say that evolution is either true or false, just as it does not say that creationsim, as understood today, is true or false.

That doesn't matter. I think Gen 1 is written in clear narrative style which tells us God created everything in 6 days, and the order of creation. These words were passed on to early Hebrews who certainly would have believed it meant 6 days. Why would God say that if he knew they would believe it was 6 days?

As I said there are many meanings that can be fit into these verses. For instance in the morning until evening of his life he was curious would surely mean more than 24 hours.

You are reading a modern nuance into the text. This phrase is an English phrase, not a Hebrew one.

Again the word "day" can have many meanings

And we get the meaning from the context! It doesn't just mean anything. It depends on context. The context in Gen 1 is quite clear.

 

[Jim1999]

that the context in Genesis one is quite clear is an opinion disputed by man theologians. As to time, sometimes it is clear, sometimes it is not. And a day in Hebrew is from morning until evening (nightfall) and still called a day...even if that day didn't start until noon....This is why we get the confusion of days between the crucifixon and resurrection.......

On Friday the day ends when the Jews go to synagogue.........still a day.

A day is not so certain. Then we have one day with the Lord is as a thousand years or a thousand years as one day. It's a drop in the bucket.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Jim1999]

The Scofield Reference Bible notes on Genesis:

The first creative act refers to the dateless past, and gives scope for all the geologic ages.

Jer 4:23-26, Isa 24:1, 45:18 clearly indicate that the earth had undergone a cataclysmic change as the result of divine judgement. The face of the earth bears everywhere the marks of such a catastrophe. There are not wanting intimations which connect it with a previous testing and fall of angels...."

It goes on to says: "The word day is used in scripture in three ways: (1) that part of the solar day of 24 hours; (2) such a day set apart for some distinctive purpose as, Day of Atonement, Day of Judgement; (3)a period of time, long or short, during which some revealed purposes of God are to be accomplished...."

Fundamental truths held by dispensational believers for over 100 years.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[annsni]

How long after Adam was created was Eve taken from his side? You might be amazed at how many have them created side by each.

Think about all the chores the man Adam was given before Eve was created...Genesis tells us that he was given the job of naming ALL the animals..Not a small task, I can tell you.

The Bible says it happened in the same day - the sixth day. It might have been a morning creation for Adam and an afternoon creation for Eve - but it was the sixth day.

 

[Jerome]

As I said there are many meanings that can be fit into these verses. For instance in the morning until evening of his life he was curious would surely mean more than 24 hours.

Of course it would, because a life is generally much much longer than a day.

 

[Jim1999]

It was a very long sixth day!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Crabtownboy]

It was a very long sixth day!

Cheers,

Jim

I guess we are still in the 7th day.