EVs are running out of customers

[KenH]

"More electric vehicles are being pumped out of car factories than ever before — but some dealers don't want them.

Electric-car inventory has been piling up on dealership lots this year as companies up their EV production, leading some dealers to say enough is enough. Some are telling automakers they don't want any more until they can sell what's sitting, several dealers told Insider.
...
Automakers are shoring up their factories to churn more of these cars out. But demand isn't growing at the same pace."

- rest at Dealers Are Turning Away Electric Cars As Demand Cools (businessinsider.com)

 

[37818]

EVs are not more economical.

 

[Van]

Every other day it seems another "bash the EV transition" article or claim is fabricated.
If people are not buying EV's then fewer EV's should be produced to meet market demand. You do not see De Soto or Studebaker or Hudson nameplates in New Car Dealerships.

1) Are our current EV's equipped with LFP batteries made in the USA by American companies using American designs? Nope
2) Are our current EV's competitively priced without Government subsidies? Nope
3) Is the operating cost of an EV less than a fossil fueled vehicle? You bet!

 

[JonC]

Well....the government will give them customers.

We are working towards an EV fleet.

Never mind that EV's can't go within the fence of nuclear facilities.

It's political. Buying vehicles that we cannot use.

 

[KenH]

There should be no taxpayer-funded subsidies for electric vehicles. If electric vehicles can't win in the marketplace on their own, then don't produce them(or at least not as many of them) is what the marketplace is telling the manufacturers.

 

[JonC]

Every other day it seems another "bash the EV transition" article or claim is fabricated.
If people are not buying EV's then fewer EV's should be produced to meet market demand. You do not see De Soto or Studebaker or Hudson nameplates in New Car Dealerships.

1) Are our current EV's equipped with LFP batteries made in the USA by American companies using American designs? Nope
2) Are our current EV's competitively priced without Government subsidies? Nope
3) Is the operating cost of an EV less than a fossil fueled vehicle? You bet!

To be fair, the gov subsidies are an issue. The overall price is high, but not the price to the customer.

I like the EV's. But I'd rather have a hybrid because I get paranoid....want a little backup. Somebody linked a 80lb motor that's work great.

Not sure if want my Jeep the be EV. Not sure why I feel that way. Maybe the weight? Nah. But something I can't quite finger. Tradition?

 

[JonC]

There should be no taxpayer-funded subsidies for electric vehicles. If electric vehicles can't win in the marketplace on their own, then don't produce them(or at least not as many of them) is what the marketplace is telling the manufacturers.

Sometimes it is necessary to build confidence in the market. But if so, it should be short term.

In demand gas water heaters were that way. People didn't go out and get them when they were new (to us as a replacement for a home system). But now they are common. (They don't really save on gas....but they take up little space and work great if installed properly....more maintenance, though).

 

[Van]

To be fair, the gov subsidies are an issue. The overall price is high, but not the price to the customer.

I like the EV's. But I'd rather have a hybrid because I get paranoid....want a little backup. Somebody linked a 80lb motor that's work great.

Not sure if want my Jeep the be EV. Not sure why I feel that way. Maybe the weight? Nah. But something I can't quite finger. Tradition?

I agree, the market cost without subsidies is still too high, but going with home produced LFP batteries should help.

Electric cars are breaking sales records, but here’s why they’re not replacing gas cars anytime soon | CNN Business

 

[KenH]

Sometimes it is necessary to build confidence in the market.

Again, if a product can't stand on its own in the marketplace, why should my tax dollars be used to fund it????

I am a minarchist. I understand that there are other people who want the government to have more power(in some cases much more power) than I do.

"The state therefore has two natural functions, functions essential to the existence of any peaceful, ordered society: to protect the rights of citizens against violent or fraudulent assault, and to judge in conflicts of right with right. It has a further third function, which is another aspect of the first, that is, to protect its citizens from assault by foreign powers. These three functions are expressed by three powers: the police power, which protects the citizen against domestic violence; the military power, which protects the citizen against violence from abroad; and the courts of law, which judge between rights and rights, as well as sharing with the police power the protection of the citizen against domestic violence.
…
But since this institution must possess a monopoly of legal physical force, to give to it in addition any further power is fraught with danger; that monopoly gives to the state so much power that its natural functions should be its maximum functions."

- Frank S. Meyer, In Defense of Freedom: A Conservative Credo, published in 1962

 

[Silverhair]

Every other day it seems another "bash the EV transition" article or claim is fabricated.
If people are not buying EV's then fewer EV's should be produced to meet market demand. You do not see De Soto or Studebaker or Hudson nameplates in New Car Dealerships.

1) Are our current EV's equipped with LFP batteries made in the USA by American companies using American designs? Nope
2) Are our current EV's competitively priced without Government subsidies? Nope
3) Is the operating cost of an EV less than a fossil fueled vehicle? You bet!

4} Can most people afford one? NOPE
5} Can you recharge them while you grab a coffee and a donut? NOPE
6} Would I want one in an emergency situation eg escaping a forest fire? NOPE
7} Are they over hyped? YOU BET

 

[Van]

4} Can most people afford one? NOPE
5} Can you recharge them while you grab a coffee and a donut? NOPE
6} Would I want one in an emergency situation eg escaping a forest fire? NOPE
7} Are they over hyped? YOU BET

The naysayers do not know LFP batteries can be charged at a higher rate.
The fear that EV's will be less reliable is be squelched when the LFP vehicles have a 10 year performance history.
EV's are over-hyped by some, and fictitiously bashed by others.

 

[JonC]

I agree, the market cost without subsidies is still too high, but going with home produced LFP batteries should help.

Electric cars are breaking sales records, but here’s why they’re not replacing gas cars anytime soon | CNN Business

Batteries are the kicker. I wanted a battery system with my solar panels. But I talked with a source who told me it will be a few years before they are cost effective.

 

[JonC]

Something else that needs to be addressed is vehicle fires.

EV's are less likely, statistically, to catch on fire. But when they do they are more difficult to extinguish and burn hotter than gasoline. That is why they are not allowed behind the fence at nuclear facilities.

Fire risk also increases with fast chargers and performance vehicles due to the demand on the battery. This is more of a consumer demand. Customers need to change their expectations and habits.

I'm not sure that that can be solved in the EV industry.

 

[JonC]

Again, if a product can't stand on its own in the marketplace, why should my tax dollars be used to fund it????

I am a minarchist. I understand that there are other people who want the government to have more power(in some cases much more power) than I do.

"The state therefore has two natural functions, functions essential to the existence of any peaceful, ordered society: to protect the rights of citizens against violent or fraudulent assault, and to judge in conflicts of right with right. It has a further third function, which is another aspect of the first, that is, to protect its citizens from assault by foreign powers. These three functions are expressed by three powers: the police power, which protects the citizen against domestic violence; the military power, which protects the citizen against violence from abroad; and the courts of law, which judge between rights and rights, as well as sharing with the police power the protection of the citizen against domestic violence.
…
But since this institution must possess a monopoly of legal physical force, to give to it in addition any further power is fraught with danger; that monopoly gives to the state so much power that its natural functions should be its maximum functions."

- Frank S. Meyer, In Defense of Freedom: A Conservative Credo, published in 1962

Because some advancements are not naturally accepted.

We know cars work. They work well. Who in their right mind is going to shift to a new technology that costs much more when what they have works?

Without incentives we wouldn't have many technologies that actually work well on a widespread basis. Tankless whole home water heaters, solar panels, EV's...

Would I have bought solar panels without a government incentive? Absolutely not. I paid half the price for my panels. Would I now install panels in a new home without those incentives? Absolutely.

 

[KenH]

Because some advancements are not naturally accepted.

So if the customers, via the free market, say no to a product, just run to the government and use the American taxpayer to give them a leg up on their competition, eh?

I support the free market and I make no excuses in doing so. I guess the old quote from Ronald Reagan doesn't apply to those who can get the taxpayers to subsidize their product so that they can gain a government-sponsored advantage.

“The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.” - Ronald Reagan

 

[KenH]

Who in their right mind is going to shift to a new technology that costs much more when what they have works?

That's right. Thus, the government should stop putting its thumb on the scale and picking winners and losers.

 

[Silverhair]

The naysayers do not know LFP batteries can be charged at a higher rate.
The fear that EV's will be less reliable is be squelched when the LFP vehicles have a 10 year performance history.
EV's are over-hyped by some, and fictitiously bashed by others.

Gee a charging rate that means I only have to spend three hours instead of what 7-10. Does not work for those that make their living while the wheels are turning. It is not a viable answer for most people. COST is the big factor. Where to charge is another. Ability to actually do your job is a third. EV's are a rich man's dream that the average man can not afford.

 

[JonC]

So if the customers, via the free market, say no to a product, just run to the government and use the American taxpayer to give them a leg up on their competition, eh?

I support the free market and I make no excuses in doing so. I guess the old quote from Ronald Reagan doesn't apply to those who can get the taxpayers to subsidize their product so that they can gain a government-sponsored advantage.

“The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.” - Ronald Reagan

It depends on the product.

The government should not force compliance, but it should look after the best interest of the nation.

I am a capitalist, but not laissez faire capitalism.

Should the government require that businesses not discriminate against minorities due to race? Under laissez faire capitalism the nation would take care of itself as attitudes change....if they change. But sometimes intervention is necessary.

Affirmative action is one of the greater evils our nation has employed. But there was not a good solution. Intervention is necessary.

So yes, if technology is available that will further the interests and stability of our nation then I have no issues with the government encouraging that technology by introducing it via rebates, tax breaks, or subsidies.

Without subsidies we would be without many of the advancements, particularly medical advancements, that we take for granted today.

Should the government make EV's cheaper than combustion engine vehicles? No. But they haven't. EV's are still more expensive.

Your post proves my point. You stated that the government is crushing the competition. But EV's cost more. So that means the customer sees the EV as a superior product. They pay more for it when they could pay less for a combustion engine vehicles, the government merely introducing the product to a people for whom it would be out of reach.

 

[KenH]

EV's are a rich man's dream that the average man can not afford.

Bingo!

 

[KenH]

I am a capitalist, but not laissez faire capitalism.

Do you support some form of State Capitalism?

Should the government require that businesses not discriminate against minorities due to race?

No. If I don't like how a business treats someone, for whatever reason, I can refuse to do business with them in a laissez faire capitalist system.

But there was not a good solution.

So, do you sort of automatically default to bad solutions, especially government-enforced ones?

So yes, if technology is available that will further the interests and stability of our nation then I have no issues with the government encouraging that technology by introducing it via rebates, tax breaks, or subsidies.

Do you support mandates to stop the production of fossil-fuel powered vehicles?

Do you place what you think are "the interests and stability of our nation" ahead of individual liberty? What if someone else thinks that "the interests and stability of our nation" means something that you disagree with and wants to use government force on you?

Without subsidies we would be without many of the advancements, particularly medical advancements, that we take for granted today.

I disagree. I think that medicine, as well as other areas, would be far more advanced without the drag and corruption of government.

Should the government make EV's cheaper than combustion engine vehicles? No.

Thank you for at least not going THAT far into Statism.

So that means the customer sees the EV as a superior product.

You are failing to take into account a WHOLE lot of virtue signaling by people with the means to do so.

the government merely introducing the product to a people for whom it would be out of reach.

And, that is not capitalistic. That is Statism.