savedbymercy
New Member
Do you want to debate/discuss something I posted in this thread ? Lets start with the OP ! Please review the points I made back to me and we start !
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Exposing False teaching about Jesus Christ !
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Do you want to debate/discuss something I posted in this thread ? Lets start with the OP ! Please review the points I made back to me and we start !
PreachTony
Active Member
No, you've basically written a book in this thread, but you've made a specific statement in your last post:
You've stated before that faith/belief is a work. So I'm asking about your specific statement here. Do we have to believe in order to be saved? I'm asking you that in direct response to your last post.
If you think we have to go all the way back to your OP, which was posted over a month ago, in order to discuss a statement you made an hour ago, then it tells me you don't actually want to discuss the very points you are making.
savedbymercy
New Member
pt
Okay, so you dont want to discuss what I posted in this thread, fine with me ! Also if you want to know what I believe, feel free to read my threads, they are full things which I believe !
Okay, so you dont want to discuss what I posted in this thread, fine with me ! Also if you want to know what I believe, feel free to read my threads, they are full things which I believe !
PreachTony
Active Member
I have read your threads. I find it odd that, while you could have easily answered a question someone was asking you, you instead tried to refocus the discussion away from your hour-old statement back to your month-old OP. You even said I did not want to discuss something posted in this thread, though that is exactly what I'm trying to do.
If you are going to make a statement, you ought to be prepared to back up why you made that statement. If you're not going to back it up, then you should probably start labeling your threads to let people know that you only want to tell them what to believe, but you don't want to answer their questions.
So I'll ask one more time. I don't even think it's that difficult of a question:
Do we have to believe in order to be saved?
savedbymercy
New Member
pt
Well if you have, you should know the answer to that question, because I have a thread on it:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97948
Now read it and you will find out what I believe ! If you had already read it like you claimed, you know what I believed already !
Well if you have, you should know the answer to that question, because I have a thread on it:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97948
Now read it and you will find out what I believe ! If you had already read it like you claimed, you know what I believed already !
savedbymercy
New Member
Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?
Many in false religion tell us that Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, but that is false witnessing. We know that Christ died for the sin of unbelief because, those He died for, are by His death, reconciled to God while they are enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we[Believers] were enemies/unbelievers, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
They were reconciled to God , while they were unbelievers and enemies, not by believing, but strictly by the Death of God's Son ! That fact alone is proof that Christ's Death paid for their sin of unbelief, because if it didnt, they could not be in a state of reconciliation with God, which is also peace with God, while still remaining enemies and unbelievers !
Now, in addition, if it were true that Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, then it would mean that Christ did not even die for the very first sin man committed in Adam, which was the sin of unbelief/disobedience. The disobedience man is first guilty of here is unbelief Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience/unbelief many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The sin of our first parents Adam and Eve was unbelief, just as in the sense as it is stated here Heb 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Eve disbelieved the True and Living God who had blessed her and her Husband, and instead believed the father of lies, the devil Jn 8:44.
Now God had made it clear to Eve, that the consequences for eating of a certain Tree would be Death Gen 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Yet the devil, the serpent said to her this Gen 3:4
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Eves Transgression consisted in believing the serpent over and above of what God had said, its quite simple, here obedience to the voice of the serpent evidenced an unbelief in what God had told her, for satan made it seem that God had deliberately misled her by stating Vs 5
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Now that began the sin of Man in Adam, a sin of unbelief coupled with disobedience !
Many in false religion tell us that Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, but that is false witnessing. We know that Christ died for the sin of unbelief because, those He died for, are by His death, reconciled to God while they are enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we[Believers] were enemies/unbelievers, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
They were reconciled to God , while they were unbelievers and enemies, not by believing, but strictly by the Death of God's Son ! That fact alone is proof that Christ's Death paid for their sin of unbelief, because if it didnt, they could not be in a state of reconciliation with God, which is also peace with God, while still remaining enemies and unbelievers !
Now, in addition, if it were true that Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, then it would mean that Christ did not even die for the very first sin man committed in Adam, which was the sin of unbelief/disobedience. The disobedience man is first guilty of here is unbelief Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience/unbelief many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The sin of our first parents Adam and Eve was unbelief, just as in the sense as it is stated here Heb 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Eve disbelieved the True and Living God who had blessed her and her Husband, and instead believed the father of lies, the devil Jn 8:44.
Now God had made it clear to Eve, that the consequences for eating of a certain Tree would be Death Gen 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Yet the devil, the serpent said to her this Gen 3:4
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Eves Transgression consisted in believing the serpent over and above of what God had said, its quite simple, here obedience to the voice of the serpent evidenced an unbelief in what God had told her, for satan made it seem that God had deliberately misled her by stating Vs 5
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Now that began the sin of Man in Adam, a sin of unbelief coupled with disobedience !
savedbymercy
New Member
Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?2
Also while discussing this vital subject, we should understand that Eves Transgression was Adam's initial Transgression, because He was the Head. Paul writes of Adam's Transgression here Rom 5:14
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Yet he also writes this 1 Tim 2:14
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
The Transgression was actually through Eve from being deceived, yet its charged to Adam, because she was part of Adam, Adam was here Head ! Remember what God called their Name Both at their Creation ? Gen 5:1-2
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their[both/plural] name Adam, in the day when they were created.
So again, the women being deceived into unbelief/disobedience was in the Transgression, which made it technically Adam's !
Now also Adam's disobedience is called unbelief here Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word unbelief here is rendered disobedience apeitheia meaning also obstinacy, opposition to the Divine Will, and thats unbelief, and what is the sin Adam and Eve were first guilty of in eating of that Tree that God said not to eat from.
So again, to say Christ did not die for that sin of unbelief, is to say that Christ did not die for the very first sin man committed in Adam, which would totally contradict Rom 5:15-16
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence[unbelief] of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned[unbelief], so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
So the Free Gift wipes out the sin of unbelief/disobedience, not only of the initial act in Adam and Eve, but thereafter of all their posterity who would be born by nature as unbelievers at the first !
Also while discussing this vital subject, we should understand that Eves Transgression was Adam's initial Transgression, because He was the Head. Paul writes of Adam's Transgression here Rom 5:14
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Yet he also writes this 1 Tim 2:14
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
The Transgression was actually through Eve from being deceived, yet its charged to Adam, because she was part of Adam, Adam was here Head ! Remember what God called their Name Both at their Creation ? Gen 5:1-2
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their[both/plural] name Adam, in the day when they were created.
So again, the women being deceived into unbelief/disobedience was in the Transgression, which made it technically Adam's !
Now also Adam's disobedience is called unbelief here Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word unbelief here is rendered disobedience apeitheia meaning also obstinacy, opposition to the Divine Will, and thats unbelief, and what is the sin Adam and Eve were first guilty of in eating of that Tree that God said not to eat from.
So again, to say Christ did not die for that sin of unbelief, is to say that Christ did not die for the very first sin man committed in Adam, which would totally contradict Rom 5:15-16
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence[unbelief] of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned[unbelief], so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
So the Free Gift wipes out the sin of unbelief/disobedience, not only of the initial act in Adam and Eve, but thereafter of all their posterity who would be born by nature as unbelievers at the first !
savedbymercy
New Member
Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?3
In the beginning the First Parents of God's Elect, Adam and Eve fell victim to a Evil heart of Unbelief liken to what the writer here points out Heb 3:12
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
You see that ? Apostasy is the symptom of an evil heart of unbelief, which Apostacy the Elect first committed in Adam and Eve. Eve disbelieved the True and Living God who had Created them and Blessed them, and believed the father of lies, the devil, which constituted a departing from God.
The word depart aphistémi means:
I make to stand away, draw away, repel, take up a position away from, withdraw from, leave, abstain from.
to fall away, become faithless = Unbelief !
BTW, this means that plain ordinary faith men have in God by nature, it means that its no good,if failed to remain loyal to God, it failed the test of Love to God !
Natural faith in God firt created in Adam and Eve apostatized, departed from God !
So again, if Christ did not die for unbelief, He did not die for the very sin of the World in Adam, which Jn 1:29 says different !
Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin[unbelief/disobedience] of the world.
The evil of unbelief with Eve , though she was deceived, she gave more credence, trust to what the devil said to her, than what God had said to her ! And at that instance she departed from the Living God !
In the beginning the First Parents of God's Elect, Adam and Eve fell victim to a Evil heart of Unbelief liken to what the writer here points out Heb 3:12
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
You see that ? Apostasy is the symptom of an evil heart of unbelief, which Apostacy the Elect first committed in Adam and Eve. Eve disbelieved the True and Living God who had Created them and Blessed them, and believed the father of lies, the devil, which constituted a departing from God.
The word depart aphistémi means:
I make to stand away, draw away, repel, take up a position away from, withdraw from, leave, abstain from.
to fall away, become faithless = Unbelief !
BTW, this means that plain ordinary faith men have in God by nature, it means that its no good,if failed to remain loyal to God, it failed the test of Love to God !
Natural faith in God firt created in Adam and Eve apostatized, departed from God !
So again, if Christ did not die for unbelief, He did not die for the very sin of the World in Adam, which Jn 1:29 says different !
Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin[unbelief/disobedience] of the world.
The evil of unbelief with Eve , though she was deceived, she gave more credence, trust to what the devil said to her, than what God had said to her ! And at that instance she departed from the Living God !
PreachTony
Active Member
Who created that faith in Adam and Eve?
savedbymercy
New Member
Are you ready to discuss the points made in this thread ? Then please starting in the topic of which you just quoted from, please show me that you understood the points I made therein, by explaining them back to me though you may not agree with them, then I will entertain all your questions about the topic. You are quoting from the topic " Did Christ die for unbelief" !
PreachTony
Active Member
This is just absolutely amazing. Someone asks you a question about your post and, instead of answering them, you hide behind claiming they don't understand you, and then you accuse them of evading. If you don't want to answer questions, then start a blog, don't take up space on a forum and frustrate everyone around you.
I was going to answer your posts in the other thread where you spoke about being condemned already, but it's just obvious to me now that you don't actually want to answer questions, you just want people to buy your theology without question.
savedbymercy
New Member
Are you ready to discuss the points made in this thread ? Then please starting in the topic of which you just quoted from, please show me that you understood the points I made therein, by explaining them back to me though you may not agree with them, then I will entertain all your questions about the topic. You are quoting from the topic " Did Christ die for unbelief" !
convicted1
Guest
You don't want discussions, just people patting your back agreeing with your view(s)...
That's evident.
savedbymercy
New Member
Thats your excuse for wanting to evade discussion about the points I made and then start rabbit trails away from them ! Arent you the one that stated specifically that Christ's Death does not save anyone ? That blasphemous remark !
Stating Christ's death did not save anyone is no different than you stating that sinners were eternally justified...both are kind of true but not true in a sense.
Nobody is ever going to do that for you. You need to get over yourself
convicted1
Guest
And what did Christ's resurrection do? Read Rom. 4:25....
It took His life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension to procure salvation for sinners. If Christ be not risen, we're still in our sins...
convicted1
Guest
His head's too big for him to get over himself....need a tank to get over that...
savedbymercy
New Member
You don't believe or understand Rom 4:25 , it proves that you are in error! It proves that Christ death Justified from sins ! You deny the saving death of Christ, Its you who made the blasphemous statement :
Christ death doesn't save anyone, why that is a lie! Peter wrote to Believers that they were healed saved by His stripes which means death 1Peter 2:24 !
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