Brother you are making assumptions about others intent much in the same way you are accusing them of.
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Exposing the roots of the Arizona immigration law
- Thread starter Magnetic Poles
- Start date
Brother you are making assumptions about others intent much in the same way you are accusing them of.
If you live in a State that borders Mexico - it would only be natural to think "Mexican" when hearing the words "illegal immigrant".
That Mexicans are the predominate illegal immigrant population in southern border States is a fact.
What good does it do to try to pretend otherwise?
Not many elderly Swiss woman are running drugs across the border with Mexico.
What you are describing is as old as Cain and Able.
Before the Europeans arrived on this continent the indigenous people were doing a fine job of killing each other and stealing each other's land.
I would be hard pressed to find a place on this planet where such behavior was not a part of it's history.
I think that everyone that opposes the law falls into one of two categories:
1. Are liberal and support the "safe havens" for illegals and do not mind them being in our country
2. Do not understand the bill and therefore are believing what the liberal media is pushing
This bill is not racist and will not promote racial profiling. All it does is give teeth to the current laws within the state. The police can not just go up to any random person and ask for their identification because they "look" illegal. Instead, if they pull over a car for speeding and ask for identification and the driver does not have any, they can be arrested (instead of simply writing them a ticket which will not be paid if they are here illegally). Once they are arrested, the individual can be further evaluated to see if they are in fact here illegally or not. If it turns out that they are illegal, then appropriate measures can be taken.
This bill does aid in the fight on illegal immigration, but will not solve the problem. I applaud Arizona for exercising their constitutional states rights and actually trying to do something. 70% of Arizona's population supports the bill. I would find it interesting to conduct a study and see what percentage of the 30% who oppose the bill knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
1. Are liberal and support the "safe havens" for illegals and do not mind them being in our country
2. Do not understand the bill and therefore are believing what the liberal media is pushing
This bill is not racist and will not promote racial profiling. All it does is give teeth to the current laws within the state. The police can not just go up to any random person and ask for their identification because they "look" illegal. Instead, if they pull over a car for speeding and ask for identification and the driver does not have any, they can be arrested (instead of simply writing them a ticket which will not be paid if they are here illegally). Once they are arrested, the individual can be further evaluated to see if they are in fact here illegally or not. If it turns out that they are illegal, then appropriate measures can be taken.
This bill does aid in the fight on illegal immigration, but will not solve the problem. I applaud Arizona for exercising their constitutional states rights and actually trying to do something. 70% of Arizona's population supports the bill. I would find it interesting to conduct a study and see what percentage of the 30% who oppose the bill knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I am a conservative and I believe its the start of the end of our liberty. But its ok because its for a good cause. Much like the consentration camps we had for the japanese during WW2 but not the germans. We don't regrete doing that now do we?
What part of the law do you oppose?
An Arizona Chief of Police was on the news last night saying that he thought that the law was pointless because in his opinion everything in it was already on the books.
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
If the contact by the police with the individual was lawful - why would you object to determining immigration status if there is suspicion of status?
Especially is the merely producing a driver's license or other valid identification meets the proof?
Is it reasonable that a police officer would not ask for identification in the process of stopping a person committing a crime or for other reasonable cause?
This does not mean that the officer can not be sued. It means that the State of Arizona will be responsible for financial awards against an officer acting under the provisions.
If the officer acts outside of the scope of the law then he is on his own.
What is the problem with that?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
What is not reasonable is that a hispanic walking down the street in a predominately white or black neighborhood could be asked to show papers which would construe a "legal contact" by the LEO. Its' not limited to just being caught in the act of a crime.
That is not my understanding of the Arizona law.
But either way -
Is the scenario that you described allowed under Federal immigration laws?
If "yes" then nothing is changed.
If "no" then it is not allowed under the Arizona law either - because the bill states that it must be consistent with current Federal immigration law.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Unfortunatley since its isn't strictly defined it does. So lets carry our papers and pretend we live in soviet era east Germany.
You need to start working from facts rather than your imagination.
"Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution."
"Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens."
I really have to question whether or not you have actually read the bill.
Bob Alkire
New Member
My friend that line gets old. As I've told you, many times while walking around waiting to be unloaded, I've been ask for an ID, why I'm there and so on. I even had them put cuffs on me, for safety they said till they checked things out. Places such as Gardena, Compton,Torrance, Pico Rivera, Vernon, Cerritos,Ca. and down south at Chula Vista, National City, El Cajon,Ca. and a few places in NY City on the east coast. It isn't new. Could I have avoided it, sure, stay in the truck and don't walk around or go get something to eat. Sometime they said it was for my safety, only caucasian in area, sometime thinking I was buying drugs, sometimes thinking I'm casing out a warehouse. I've been going through this from the 60's on but it is worse today. I wish they would check people walking around my neighborhood at times.
I think the thing we agree on is I don't trust government workers as a whole, even though I've met some great ones. I've had these little police officers act bad when they checked me out, and that upset me, but their have been some real pros as well. But none of them put my life in danger, they were just doing a job and as in most lines of work, some were much better at it than others.
Then you should have been concerned about the Federal law prior to this one because it basically mirrors it.
As Always, You Are....
.... dead on right! Whay can't some folks see the simplicity of this rationale??? :type:
.... dead on right! Whay can't some folks see the simplicity of this rationale??? :type:
Trotter
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The way I look at it the libs ought to be glad that AZ didn't pass a law that said they would open fire on anyone caught coming across the border illegally. Instead they are going to treat law breakers (illegals... make the connection?) as, guess what? Illegals. Now I know that is a completely novel idea, to actual treat someone breaking the law as a criminal and all. I mean, if it were enforced DC would be a ghost town and all. But I applaud AZ for growing a backbone.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I spoke with a LEO I know and I confirmed my fears. All a LEO has to do is articulate the necessity in stopping a person. The range of circumstances can inlcude a white or hispanic person in a predominately black neighborhood. Legal contact is established to find out what business they have in that area. I wasn't going off the deep end. And Arizona interpets that "legal contact" more liberally than eastern states. The profiling aspect of the legislation is non workable so it will be disregarded in favor of workable profilling. Though this won't be admitted to in courts in favor of the legislation's language.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Then my friend the consept of liberty eludes you.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I disagree. When I'm walking down the street in compliance with the laws of the land. And I've done nothing to raise supsion at my behavior other than going down a different neighborhood than usual. And the Police can stop me when they feel like to ask for my "Papers". How is that not a hinderance to liberty? If I commit a crime. Ok fine I've limited my own liberty. But otherwise not.