Ezekiel 18 Falling away and become wicked

[standingfirminChrist]

DPT,

I will challenge you as I did BobRyan.

Try to stop believing in Christ and tell me if it is possible.

As I said, I do not believe it is possible to stop believing in Christ once you have placed your trust in Him. When you place your trust in Him, He reveals Himself to you. How can you stop believing once you have seen the hand of the Lord?

 

[DeafPosttrib]

SFC,

Do you think Christ controls us as robot when after we believed in him, and then, He controls our mind as he push button saying, "stay believing on him" all the way to our death or He comes?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SFIC: How can you stop believing once you have seen the hand of the Lord?

HP: As a dog returns to vomit, that's how the Scripture puts it.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SFIC: Once you place your trust in Christ, you cannot stop believing in Him....Jesus promised that those that believe in Him SHALL NEVER perish.

HP: Are you going to continue to misquote the words 'should not perish' in John 3:16?

 

[BobRyan]

SFIC :

SFIC: How can you stop believing once you have seen the hand of the Lord?

HP: As a dog returns to vomit, that's how the Scripture puts it.

Ahh - but what if you promised yourself that you would not read that text -- avoid it and misread it whenever it is required? Wouldn't that be a way to still be in the dark on that point?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

DPT,

I will challenge you as I did BobRyan.

Try to stop believing in Christ and tell me if it is possible.

Truly and interesting challenge.

I challenge you to actually exegete Ezek 18 or Matt 18 or John 15 or Romans 11 or 2Peter 2:20-22 to SHOW that any of these texts and be spun around as you have stated that they need to be spun.

Where you take God's statement in Ezek 18 saying "He is a righteous man -- he will live" to mean "he is NOT a righteous man - he shall die in the lake of fire".

Try to show that what "OSAS NEEDS to have been written there instead of what we SEE written there" can be inserted into the text just as you suggest.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

As has already been pointed out -- the ONE area where ALL on this topic agree is in the case of those who accept Christ - repent - are born-again and remain faithful firm unto the end.

ALL on this board would argue that such a person got saved and remained saved all the way to the end.

that is "a given".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

DPT,

I will challenge you as I did BobRyan.

Try to stop believing in Christ and tell me if it is possible.

As I said, I do not believe it is possible to stop believing

A better question to ask the 5pt Calvinist -- "When you fail to persevere ten years from today will you retro delete the assurance of salvation you have today and claim at that time -- "Well then I never was saved in the first place"??? Will your fellow Calvinists say that of you then?"

If so -- what is your assurance for today based on ??

 

[standingfirminChrist]

SFC,

Do you think Christ controls us as robot when after we believed in him, and then, He controls our mind as he push button saying, "stay believing on him" all the way to our death or He comes?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

DPT,

Can you stop believing in Him? Even for a minute? I bet you can't.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HP: As a dog returns to vomit, that's how the Scripture puts it.

The dog returning to his vomit never was anything but a dog.
The pig returning to the mire never was anything but a pig.

Just because one pulls a dog from its vomit or a pig from the mud and cleans them up does not mean they are saved. You are comparing apples and oranges.

One who has been saved has the Holy Spirit in him or her. The Holy Spirit teaches and testifies Christ to the Believer. One cannot stop believing in Christ, because the Spirit speaks the Truth to that one and that one knows it.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (John 10:27)

How can one who hears the voice of the Savior stop believing in the Savior? It is impossible.

 

[Linda64]

HP: Are you going to continue to misquote the words 'should not perish' in John 3:16?

How about these verses?:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:28-29)

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Jesus did say shall never perish. John 10:28

 

[LeBuick]

HP: Are you going to continue to misquote the words 'should not perish' in John 3:16?

Is this some kind of greek thing? I never saw the word "should" there???

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It was just another attack on one teaching truth by one who should be studying the truth more.

 

[Linda64]

Is this some kind of greek thing? I never saw the word "should" there???

No, this isn't some kind of Greek thing. John 3:16 in the KJV does say "should not perish"

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

However SFIC was not quoting John 3:16--he never really said which verse it was in, that was an assumption on HP's part.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Linda64: that was an assumption on HP's part.

HP: You have to remember, this is not my first rodeo with SFIC:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SFIC: It was just another attack on one teaching truth by one who should be studying the truth more.

HP: This was the very same point I made to you in a past post when you clearly misrepresented the text of John 3:16 and a I asked you about it then. As I recall you simply answered with silence.

Well, fortunate for you, this is your lucky day. :thumbs: You have been afforded another opportunity to quote the text right, and explain to the list the distinction between ‘shall not’ and ‘should not’ perish.

 

[LeBuick]

No, this isn't some kind of Greek thing. John 3:16 in the KJV does say "should not perish"

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

However SFIC was not quoting John 3:16--he never really said which verse it was in, that was an assumption on HP's part.

I thought this was a trick of some kind. Do you believe the bible can contradict itself? Do you believe God would send us some kind of mixed message? Would God allow confusion to scatter his fold or be in His word?

If the Bible can’t contradict itself and God would not allow confusion in his Word then we must look deeper than the surface of a word like should. I am sure you can agree should can have multiple meanings or implications. If multiple places says shall and one place says should, how am I to interpret the word should?

This is not directed at you Linda because I know you have no problem with this word.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

LeBuick: we must look deeper than the surface of a word like should.

HP: I agree that we need to think deeply, but never should we allow the plain and the obvious to be obscured by the endless pursuit of knowledge. We should allow the plain, simple, and obvious truths to guide us to a deeper understanding of the obscure and more difficult concepts. We need to utilize these simple and plain truths to guide us in our examination of deeper truths and use them to test the presuppositions we are so prone to interpret all of Scripture by.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HP: This was the very same point I made to you in a past post when you clearly misrepresented the text of John 3:16 and a I asked you about it then. As I recall you simply answered with silence.

Well, fortunate for you, this is your lucky day. :thumbs: You have been afforded another opportunity to quote the text right, and explain to the list the distinction between ‘shall not’ and ‘should not’ perish.

HP, I refer you back to post 115 in this thread. I did not say it was John 3:16, now did I?