• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ezekiel 18 Falling away and become wicked

H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member
SFIC: Faith without works is dead, being alone. As BGTF pointed out, it is not until you put that belief into action that that belief it complete.
Click to expand...
HP: So can I assume then that you are saying that until we do some works (put that belief into action as you put it) we cannot be saved, for salvation must follow belief, and belief is not believe until we ‘put that belief into action,’ right?

SFIC: My brother, as I said, made a profession that Jesus was the Christ. He said he believed that Jesus died on the cross for his sins. And yet, Melvin died a drunkard. He died with cirrhosis of the liver and refused to hear the gospel the last few days of his life.
Click to expand...
HP: Then you would be at odds with BGTF, for he said that belief was a mental assent. You seem to indicate that belief is not enough even though Scripture informs us that belief is all the Lord required, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.”
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member
SFIC: Commit your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Click to expand...
HP: I don’t know. That sounds a lot like salvation by works to me. When you start saying that man must do something to be saved, like forming intents to trust, that almost sounds like some Arminian friends of mine. :smilewinkgrin:
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
I have come to expect such from HP. He has come against every Biblical doctine I have ever stood for here on the BB.

His arrogance toward me only strengthens my faith in the God of the Bible.


I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.

I am persuaded that the Christ in whom I have placed my trust will confirm me to the end as He promised. I am convinced that He will be faithful as His Word proclaims Him to be and that because He cannot lie, He will present me blameless in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ.

HP can rail against me all he wants. Christ Jesus is standing in my defense. He is my advocate when the accuser of the brethren comes against me.
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: I don’t know. That sounds a lot like salvation by works to me. When you start saying that man must do something to be saved, like forming intents to trust, that almost sounds like some Arminian friends of mine. :smilewinkgrin:
Click to expand...

You'd better believe it, HP. It is a matter of life and death.

Believe on means Commit trust in. Look it up.
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member
SFIC: Believe on means Commit trust in.
Click to expand...

HP: What if I was to say then that trust, a committal of the will to form intents in agreement with Gods conditions, is a condition to salvation? Would that be adding works to grace, involving man's will along with God's plan?
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
Many people believe just because they repeated a simple prayer or spoke the words, 'I believe' that that saves them. It cannot be further than the truth.

The devils even believe who Jesus is. If they did not believe who He was, they would not work so hard against Him.

But the devils are not saved, nor can be.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Click to expand...

Here are people professing who Jesus is and are not saved. Lip confession is not enough, heart possession must be evident as well.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)
Click to expand...

Uh-oh, there is that word that means 'commit trust' in again.
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member
While waiting for a response from SFIC, let me ask another question. Where does repentance fit into this belief, this trust, this committal of the will, or does it?
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
SFIC: Could you answer my last post directly? Thanks.
Click to expand...

One cannot eat strong meat until one grows on the sincere milk. Study the truths I have posted already. When you have received them, then you will be ready for strong meat of the Word.
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
standingfirminChrist said:
Bob, you are using OT texts and trying to insert NT truths into it. Look at it in the light of the OT laws and torts.
Click to expand...

This thread subject is on Ezek 18 -- I did not start it but I am happy to read ALL scripture for "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND IS valid and to be used for doctrine" 2Tim 3:16-17

But in the case of Ezek 18 -- we could just as easily be looking at Matt 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and we would see the same point "again".

in Christ,

Bob
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
BobRyan said:
This thread subject is on Ezek 18 -- I did not start it but I am happy to read ALL scripture for "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND IS valid and to be used for doctrine" 2Tim 3:16-17

But in the case of Ezek 18 -- we could just as easily be looking at Matt 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and we would see the same point "again".

in Christ,

Bob
Click to expand...

In the case of Ezekiel 18 we could just as easily look at Luke 11. "Righteous acts" and we would see the same point.

Man in Luke 11 is shown to be evil and yet does righteous acts. Just as the man in Ezekiel 18.
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
God says the man in Ezek 18 is "righteous" and that he "shall live"

Ezek 18
Quoting the "details" in Ezek 18...

5 "Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.

6 He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of the house of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor's wife
or lie with a woman during her period.

7 He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.

8 He does not lend at usury
or take excessive interest. [a]
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between man and man.

9 He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares the Sovereign LORD.
Click to expand...


In the same way God says the man in Matt 18 is "Forgiven" of all his sin debt.

In the case of Matt 18 -- that "forgiveness is revoked"

Christ said the SAME thing would happen to HIS followers if they chose not to forgive others -- freely forgiving others JUST AS they have been forgiven.

In the case of Ezek 18 - the man turns from what God calls "righteous" and returns to his "wicked" state. God says "he will NOT live" IF he TURNS.

In Christ,

Bob
 
L

LeBuick

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
This is not speaking of a saved man in verse 24. It is not speaking of one who has put on the righteousness of Christ. How do I know? Why, two of the earliest verses I learned as a child:.
Click to expand...

I agree, OT righteousness was via the law which is not the vehicle of salvation.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top