Ezekiel 18 Falling away and become wicked

[BobRyan]

Jesus did say shall never perish. John 10:28

In John 10 Belief and obedience are linked and I know that when SFIC speaks of eternal life and belief he speaks of it in the context of those who "persevere firm unto the end".

John 10

26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

 

[LeBuick]

In John 10 Belief and obedience are linked and I know that when SFIC speaks of eternal life and belief he speaks of it in the context of those who "persevere firm unto the end".

John 10

26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I think these two versus hold the key to your statement. Am I wrong?

26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

But then that would take us back to the never saved to begin with thread...

EDIT to add: I’m not implying one must be obedient to be saved but Jesus appears to say that a saved person will be obedient.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I think these two versus hold the key to your statement. Am I wrong?

26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

But then that would take us back to the never saved to begin with thread...

EDIT to add: I’m not implying one must be obedient to be saved but Jesus appears to say that a saved person will be obedient.

A saved person will follow Christ. 'and they follow Me'

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Thanks Linda for all your hard work. :thumbs: SFIC owes you big time for this one. :smilewinkgrin:

That's Boardwalk for Linda, a get out of trouble for free for SFIC, and a go directly to jail for me:tonofbricks:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If that is your way of saying you were wrong, I accept your apology.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SFIC: If that is your way of saying you were wrong, I accept your apology.

HP: I understood you to be referring to John 3:16. I do not believe I was wrong in that assumption. Go ahead, tell me you were really referring to the text Linda posted. Remember, God is listening.

I have came to realize that in one post you did not mention the actual reference, and I should have asked specifically for the text you were speaking of but I did not. For that I apologize. John 3:16 is misused so often I suppose I just assumed something that may or may not have been the case. If you had another text in mind, why did Linda have to point out another verse for you to be so interested in dialog on the issue now? It would appear that thanks are in order to Linda for sort of saving you on this one.

I have not had the time so far to look into the passage Linda brought up as of yet, but I will. It is obvious that the words ‘should and shall’ are both used in different contexts. Possibly in time we shall or at least should see the import of the usage of the terms in different contexts. It could simply mean that ‘in a sense’ is to be understood in the one passage. Possibly this evening we can look at the text together.

OK, so the text Linda posted says ‘shall.’ John 3: 16 does not change does it? It says ‘should not.’ While I am working on Linda’s text, for the second time, tell us the meaning of ‘should not’ in this text.

 

[BobRyan]

I think these two versus hold the key to your statement. Am I wrong?

26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

But then that would take us back to the never saved to begin with thread...

EDIT to add: I’m not implying one must be obedient to be saved but Jesus appears to say that a saved person will be obedient.

Indeed. But he refers to the present state of obedience.

This does not in any way negate the fact that among the presently disobedient there are those who were formerly obedient, formerly in Christ, yet now severed from Christ.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LeBuick]

Indeed. But he refers to the present state of obedience.

This does not in any way negate the fact that among the presently disobedient there are those who were formerly obedient, formerly in Christ, yet now severed from Christ.

in Christ,

Bob

Correction: He refers to the present and future state of obedience. He says and they follow me which is a present and future action. (I added that for free)

Your second statement conflicts with what Jesus goes on to say;

Jn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

He said he gave them eternal life. He said they shall never perish. He said neither shall any man, I assume this means yourself since we are man, pluck them out of my hands. How can the previous that Jesus described fit your statement of, "now severed from Christ." The master said this can't happen???

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HP: I understood you to be referring to John 3:16. I do not believe I was wrong in that assumption. Go ahead, tell me you were really referring to the text Linda posted. Remember, God is listening.

I have came to realize that in one post you did not mention the actual reference, and I should have asked specifically for the text you were speaking of but I did not. For that I apologize. John 3:16 is misused so often I suppose I just assumed something that may or may not have been the case. If you had another text in mind, why did Linda have to point out another verse for you to be so interested in dialog on the issue now? It would appear that thanks are in order to Linda for sort of saving you on this one.

I have not had the time so far to look into the passage Linda brought up as of yet, but I will. It is obvious that the words ‘should and shall’ are both used in different contexts. Possibly in time we shall or at least should see the import of the usage of the terms in different contexts. It could simply mean that ‘in a sense’ is to be understood in the one passage. Possibly this evening we can look at the text together.

OK, so the text Linda posted says ‘shall.’ John 3: 16 does not change does it? It says ‘should not.’ While I am working on Linda’s text, for the second time, tell us the meaning of ‘should not’ in this text.

HP,

I was referring to the fact that Jesus said 'shall never perish,' which He most certainly did. I was not referring to John 3:16.

As to the meaning of 'should not perish', I see a picture of someone who has the feeling that all hope is gone. They should not have that feeling now, for Jesus has come into the world.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SFIC: As to the meaning of 'should not perish', I see a picture of someone who has the feeling that all hope is gone. They should not have that feeling now, for Jesus has come into the world.

HP: Before I read John 3:16 using your explanation, I will give you the opportunity to give us your idea as to how it should be read in light of your ideas above.