Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God !

[DHK]

You know where you lied in post 22 , You stated this:

Now where did I say or deny that one is Justified by Faith ? You need to provide that sir, or admit that you lied !

Your view is warped.
Here is what you say:

Remission of sins is salvation, even before we receive the Knowledge or intelligence of it, and so in this respect, everyone Christ died for, and because of it, Before God all their sins are remitted, and all them have Salvation ,no penalty for sin to pay, they have it even before it is announced to them by the Gospel preacher !

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1906748&postcount=204
Basically you are saying that they have salvation before they have a knowledge or intelligence of it. That is they are saved before they are able to have faith.
Therefore justification (which takes place at the time of salvation) is not by faith. It can't be. They are not even knowledgeable about salvation or forgiveness of sins when they receive it, according to you. How can justification by by faith when you believe in this kind of philosophy (I can't bring myself to call it theology) ?

 

[BobRyan]

to DHK -
Now where did I say or deny that one is Justified by Faith ? You need to provide that sir, or admit that you lied !

Does the Bible say that we are born-again, saved, before we are justified?

Does the bible say that we have "faith" before we are born?

Does the Bible say we have faith only AFTER we are justified? saved? born-again?

 

[DHK]

Does the Bible say that we are born-again, saved, before we are justified?

Does the bible say that we have "faith" before we are born?

Does the Bible say we have faith only AFTER we are justified? saved? born-again?

It comes in this order.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
--The gospel is the Word of God. By hearing and understanding the gospel, we come to a place where we are able to put our confidence or faith in its message.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--The Word of God is essential in our new birth. The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God to regenerate us. First we must hear the Word of God. Then we must put our faith in its message in it. Only then can the new birth take place.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
--This is the gospel. Regeneration and salvation take place simultaneously.
It was preached to the Corinthians. They received it by faith. "By which they were saved." It is the gospel message, and their faith in it, which saves.

Note: There is no mystical, superstitious, magical regeneration that takes place before the event of salvation/justification. It all takes place at the same time.
For by grace are ye saved through faith.

 

[savedbymercy]

Your view is warped.
Here is what you say:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1906748&postcount=204
Basically you are saying that they have salvation before they have a knowledge or intelligence of it. That is they are saved before they are able to have faith.
Therefore justification (which takes place at the time of salvation) is not by faith. It can't be. They are not even knowledgeable about salvation or forgiveness of sins when they receive it, according to you. How can justification by by faith when you believe in this kind of philosophy (I can't bring myself to call it theology) ?

Of course they have Salvation before they have a knowledge of it, that's why God sends them the Gospel of their Salvation, to give them a knowledge of their Salvation by the remission of sins Lk 1:77 !

You don't even know what the Gospel is for !

 

[savedbymercy]

You know where you lied in post 22 , You stated this:



Now where did I say or deny that one is Justified by Faith ? You need to provide that sir, or admit that you lied !

So you are comfortable with slander and bearing false witness !

Your view is warped.
Here is what you say:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1906748&postcount=204
Basically you are saying that they have salvation before they have a knowledge or intelligence of it. That is they are saved before they are able to have faith.
Therefore justification (which takes place at the time of salvation) is not by faith. It can't be. They are not even knowledgeable about salvation or forgiveness of sins when they receive it, according to you. How can justification by by faith when you believe in this kind of philosophy (I can't bring myself to call it theology) ?

 

[BobRyan]

Does the Bible say that we are born-again, saved, before we are justified?

Does the bible say that we have "faith" before we are born?

Does the Bible say we have faith only AFTER we are justified? saved? born-again?

SavedByMercy claims we were redeemed, saved, justified at the cross - which is before all of us were physically born.

yet claims we are "justified by faith" which no one today could have had before they were physically born.

There are some problems with that view.

 

[savedbymercy]

SavedByMercy claims we were redeemed, saved, justified at the cross - which is before all of us were physically born.

yet claims we are "justified by faith" which no one today could have had before they were physically born.

There are some problems with that view.

Show me where I stated that a person is Justified by Faith before they are born, unless I specifically said that it was by the Faith/Faithfulness of Christ ! If you don't show me the statement then you are guilty of lying about what I said and misrepresenting what I said !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

It comes in this order.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
--The gospel is the Word of God. By hearing and understanding the gospel, we come to a place where we are able to put our confidence or faith in its message.

You have a problem. Those who are not of God cannot hear nor understand the Gospel, the Word of God, so then they cant put Faith in Christ. Jesus says this to unregenerate men ,

Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Unregenerate men cannot #1 understand Jesus speech and #2 CANNOT HEAR His Word, the Word of Christ !

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus makes it plain as to who it is that Hears and Understands His Word, he or them that are of God, meaning Born of God !

So the Hearing in Rom 10:17 is of those who are of God, not a unregenerate man in the flesh ! Sorry !

 

[DHK]

dhk



You have a problem. Those who are not of God cannot hear nor understand the Gospel, the Word of God, so then they cant put Faith in Christ. Jesus says this to unregenerate men ,

Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Unregenerate men cannot #1 understand Jesus speech and #2 CANNOT HEAR His Word, the Word of Christ !

(YLT) wherefore do ye not know my speech? because ye are not able to hear my word.
They will not listen (ou dunasthe akouein) to the substance of Christ’s teaching and hence they are impatient with the way that he talks. How often that is true. (A.T. Robertson)
--Your problem is that you insert your pre-conceived idea into that verse instead of doing any real Bible study to find out what it really means. It is a matter of the will. They would not listen and therefore could not understand. Their unwillingness to listen to Christ's words is why they could not understand. This obvious from the text.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus makes it plain as to who it is that Hears and Understands His Word, he or them that are of God, meaning Born of God !

Jesus makes it plain that those that CHOOSE to listen to God's Word will eventually accept it become His, (as His disciples did), therefore they will understand his words.

So the Hearing in Rom 10:17 is of those who are of God, not a unregenerate man in the flesh ! Sorry !

This applies to any person, saved or unsaved. Unless a man understands the gospel he cannot get saved. Understand that. "Sorry" You are wrong.

 

[savedbymercy]

(YLT) wherefore do ye not know my speech? because ye are not able to hear my word.
They will not listen (ou dunasthe akouein) to the substance of Christ’s teaching and hence they are impatient with the way that he talks. How often that is true. (A.T. Robertson)
--Your problem is that you insert your pre-conceived idea into that verse instead of doing any real Bible study to find out what it really means. It is a matter of the will. They would not listen and therefore could not understand. Their unwillingness to listen to Christ's words is why they could not understand. This obvious from the text.

Jesus makes it plain that those that CHOOSE to listen to God's Word will eventually accept it become His, (as His disciples did), therefore they will understand his words.

This applies to any person, saved or unsaved. Unless a man understands the gospel he cannot get saved. Understand that. "Sorry" You are wrong.

No thats not what Jesus makes plain, thats a false and deceptive statement. What Jesus makes plain is men cannot hear and understand His Word or Speech unless they are born of God !

And lets state it correctly Jesus says in Jn 8:43 they CANNOT HEAR ; Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

A deaf person does not have a choice on whether or not he or she can hear, they just dont have that ability !

 

[DHK]

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

A deaf person does not have a choice on whether or not he or she can hear, they just dont have that ability !

They are not deaf. It is a matter of choice. Read again A.T. Roberson's comments. Perhaps a looser translation will help you:

(CEV) Why can't you understand what I am talking about? Can't you stand to hear what I am saying?

Why can't you understand me?
You can't stand to hear what I am saying!!

They didn't want to understand him. It was their choice; their unbelief.
God did not bind their hearts. That is your theology forced into the text.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

They are not deaf

They cannot hear. The word deaf means:

partly or totally lacking the sense of hearing.

 

[savedbymercy]

Folks the reason why those in Jn 8:43 could not hear God's Word, they lacked the ability and because as Jesus plainly stated in Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus gives the reason why here BECAUSE Ye are not of God, which means not Born of God !

 

[DHK]

dhk



They cannot hear. The word deaf means:

partly or totally lacking the sense of hearing.

The word "deaf" is your word. It is not found here in this passage. Indeed you are deaf to common sense and deaf to rightly dividing the word of truth, deaf to the true sense of the meaning of Scripture.

 

[savedbymercy]

The word "deaf" is your word. It is not found here in this passage. Indeed you are deaf to common sense and deaf to rightly dividing the word of truth, deaf to the true sense of the meaning of Scripture.

Folks the reason why those in Jn 8:43 could not hear God's Word, they lacked the ability and because as Jesus plainly stated in Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus gives the reason why here BECAUSE Ye are not of God, which means not Born of God !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

The word "deaf" is your word. It is not found here in this passage.

No the exact word isnt, but the exact meaning of the word is, Cannot Hear ! Matt 11:5

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

 

[DHK]

Folks the reason why those in Jn 8:43 could not hear God's Word, they lacked the ability and because as Jesus plainly stated in Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus gives the reason why here BECAUSE Ye are not of God, which means not Born of God !

The repetition of error is still error. Notice how no one listens to it anymore.
At least read someone who knows what he is talking about, A.T. Robertson, a Greek scholar,

My speech (tēn lalian tēn emēn) and my word (ton logon ton emon). Perhaps lalia, old word from lalos (talk), means here more manner of speech than just story (Joh_4:42), while logos refers rather to the subject matter. They will not listen (ou dunasthe akouein) to the substance of Christ’s teaching and hence they are impatient with the way that he talks. How often that is true.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

The repetition of error is still error. Notice how no one listens to it anymore.
At least read someone who knows what he is talking about, A.T. Robertson, a Greek scholar,

No its not, Jesus says that they cannot Hear His Word ! Now the consequences of not having that ability is they cannot or will not listen !

But you or no greek scholar cant contradict Jesus words and get away with it by me. The word cannot is the greek words ou which means:

I.no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer

And the word dynamai which means:


I.to be able, have power whether by virtue of one's own ability and resources, or of a state of mind, or through favourable circumstances, or by permission of law or custom


II.to be able to do something


III.to be capable, strong and powerful

So the word means they dont have the ability and resources to Hear God's Words, they are not able to do it !

And consequently they shall evidence their inability to Hear it by their rejcting it, or not accepting it !

William Mounce, a Greek Scholar in his Interlinear translates the verse :

Why do you not understand the way I speak ? It is because you are unable to grasp my message !

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jn+8:43&version=MOUNCE

Then to top that off, Jesus says why specifically they cannot hear, its because they are not of God Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The reason why they are not willing to hear is because they dont have the ability to grasp it, receive it !

And finally you are a prime example of not being able to Hear Jesus words !

 

[DHK]

Then to top that off, Jesus says why specifically they cannot hear, its because they are not of God Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The reason why they are not willing to hear is because they dont have the ability to grasp it, receive it !

And finally you are a prime example of not being able to Hear Jesus words !

This has the same teaching as in verse 43.
You are just like the ones he is speaking to: "You cannot hear!
You don't want to hear. You refuse to hear. You close your ears, your understanding, etc. You shut everything down except your own views. You refuse to listen to the views of others.
You are just like the ones that Christ was speaking to. They refused to listen to his words. They would not, and therefore couldn't. You are a good example of this.

Here is the verse in Young's literal translation:
(YLT) he who is of God, the sayings of God he doth hear; because of this ye do not hear, because of God ye are not.'

Here is A.T. Robertson't comments on the same:

He that is of God (ho ōn ek tou theou). See this use of ek in Joh_3:31. “Their not listening proved that they were not of God” (Dods). They were of the earth and the devil, not of God.

Note: Their not listening proved that they were not of God.
They chose not to listen. It was their choice just as it is your choice right now. You refuse to listen to what is being said by other posters. You just keep on posting the same error post after post after post--refusing to listen to what anyone else has to say.
This verse is very descriptive of how you are behaving here.
Look well into the true meaning of it.

 

[savedbymercy]

This has the same teaching as in verse 43.
You are just like the ones he is speaking to: "You cannot hear!
You don't want to hear. You refuse to hear. You close your ears, your understanding, etc. You shut everything down except your own views. You refuse to listen to the views of others.
You are just like the ones that Christ was speaking to. They refused to listen to his words. They would not, and therefore couldn't. You are a good example of this.

Here is the verse in Young's literal translation:
(YLT) he who is of God, the sayings of God he doth hear; because of this ye do not hear, because of God ye are not.'

Here is A.T. Robertson't comments on the same:

Note: Their not listening proved that they were not of God.
They chose not to listen. It was their choice just as it is your choice right now. You refuse to listen to what is being said by other posters. You just keep on posting the same error post after post after post--refusing to listen to what anyone else has to say.
This verse is very descriptive of how you are behaving here.
Look well into the true meaning of it.

They cannot hear is why, Jesus Christ says that Jn 8:43 and why they cannot hear because they are not of God vs 47 !