Faith is from Christ to the Elect

[savedbymercy]

Salvation is the free gift of God.
There are no conditions to receiving God's free gift.

You do not believe that, if so then why is not everyone saved by this free gift ?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The notion that a gift cannot have conditions is a ficticious notion in the minds of some that has absolutely no basis in facts. DHK can only continue to pound on the pulpit exclaiming that gifts cannot have conditions, but no matter how loud he pounds it doesn't make his case. Gifts can indeed have conditions, salvation being no exception.

 

[DHK]

dhk



Faith is a work, its an act of obedience ! If you say you are saved because you have faith, you are promoting salvation by works, by keeping a commandment ! You are also denying that Christ death alone saved you !

No faith is not a work. Putting the faith into action is work.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
--No work is involved. It is an act of the will.
However putting that faith into practice afterward is another thing. The walk of faith: praying, reading, witnessing, etc. They are all works, and they all come after that initial act of faith which is not a work.

 

[DHK]

The notion that a gift cannot have conditions is a ficticious notion in the minds of some that has absolutely no basis in facts. DHK can only continue to pound on the pulpit exclaiming that gifts cannot have conditions, but no matter how loud he pounds it doesn't make his case. Gifts can indeed have conditions, salvation being no exception.

God has never set any condition on his gift of salvation. You cannot prove that he has.

When I give gifts to my children I give them freely. There are never any conditions attached. But I suppose you make your children work for their birthday gifts.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

If in fact DHK really believes that gifts cannot have conditions, then salvation must be all of God period. If salvation is all of God and man is not involved in any condition in order to receive salvation, there remains but one in and to such an argument. God has chosen some to give a gift to and some He has chosen not to give a gift to, choosing some to salvation and choosing others to damnation apart from anything they have done or could possibly do. Double predestination rules, predestination of some to be saved, predestination of others to be damned. DHK cannot escape the logical consequence of the notion that gifts cannot have conditions. The logical end of DHK's argument is none other than fatalistic determination.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: God has never set any condition on his gift of salvation. You cannot prove that he has.

When I give gifts to my children I give them freely. There are never any conditions attached. But I suppose you make your children work for their birthday gifts.

HP: Truth is not established on whether or not DHK has ever set a condition to any gift he has given his children. DHK is not God and DHK did not establish salvation or the means by which savation is to be entered into.

Scripture clearly sets forth that salvation has conditions. The first condition set by Scripture concerning salvation, in which God demands man to do something in order to be saved, is to exercise his will in repentance, without which no man will be saved.

Here is just one such verse that proves this point.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[savedbymercy]

Denial of Salvation by Grace !

hp

Scripture clearly sets forth that salvation has conditions. The first condition set by Scripture concerning salvation, in which God demands man to do something in order to be saved, is to exercise his will in repentance, without which no man will be saved.

Thats salvation by works, man doing something, this thinking is against Salvation by Grace ! Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[DHK]

If in fact DHK really believes that gifts cannot have conditions, then salvation must be all of God period. If salvation is all of God and man is not involved in any condition in order to receive salvation, there remains but one in and to such an argument.

The answer is that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. It is the gift of God. You cannot work for it; you cannot work to maintain it. It is all of God. That is why it is received by faith and faith alone. Faith is not a work.

HP's definitions are different than how the Bible defines Biblical terms, thus he reads into the Bible an unbiblical philosophy.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: The answer is that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. It is the gift of God. You cannot work for it; you cannot work to maintain it. It is all of God. That is why it is received by faith and faith alone. Faith is not a work.

HP: When one is speaking in the sense of the 'grounds' of salvation alone, I agree with you. No man had or has anything to do with the plan of salvation or the means by which God chose to redeem mankind.
What DHK refuse to understand is first God's sovereignty. A sovereign God can choose to place any condition on receiving salvation He so desires. Scripture, NOT my philosophy, has set forth the conditions of receiving salvation and keeping it to the end. God's word is clear. Repentance is the first clearly stated condition, without which no one will be saved. Exercising our will in faith in the atonement is the second stated condition. Neither of these conditions will in the end see us home to glory unless we fulfill the third stated Scriptural condition, i.e., remain faithful until the end.

So we see again, DHK limits the Sovereignty of God by telling God He cannot do what Scriptures tell us He did, place conditions for us to fulfill in order to receive and maintain our hope to the end. Secondly DHK refuses to realize that salvation is spoken of in two senses not one. We are NOT involved in salvations plan of the means God chose to accomplish the atonement, so if that is being addressed we are not involved in the least. Still, we are involved in salvation when fulfilling the conditions God has set forth are being addressed, in such matters as repentance, faith, and endurance until the end. We do not keep ourselves totally by ourselves, but we are required to utilize our wills in obedience to God's commands, looking in faith for Him to provide the necessary way of escape from temptations snare.

Faith is much the same. It is spoke of in two senses as well. God gives to all a measure of faith, by being the object necessary for faith to exist, and giving us the abilities to exercise faith. We do not create faith in and of ourselves, for the object of faith rests in God and not man, God pre-existing the state of man, having no beginning, and that by necessity. Still yet, man must exercise his will in agreement to the measure of faith given to us by God in order to do anything pleasing to God. So, man is not involved in the measure of faith we are all initially given, but our wills are directly involved in exercising faith in a manner pleasing to God.

Conclusion: Salvation is thought of in two senses not one.

Faith is also thought of in two senses not one. In one sense faith is not a work (speaking of the measure of faith given to all) yet it is a work in the sense that one must exercise their will in accordance to God's truth in order to do anything pleasing to Him. Without faith, in this latter sense, i.e., the will of man choosing of its own volition to place ones faith in God, exercising obedience in agreement to His stated conditions and in the atonement, it is impossible to please God.

 

[DHK]

HP: When one is speaking in the sense of the 'grounds' of salvation alone, I agree with you. No man had or has anything to do with the plan of salvation or the means by which God chose to redeem mankind.
What DHK refuse to understand is first God's sovereignty. A sovereign God can choose to place any condition on receiving salvation He so desires. Scripture, NOT my philosophy, has set forth the conditions of receiving salvation and keeping it to the end. God's word is clear. Repentance is the first clearly stated condition, without which no one will be saved. Exercising our will in faith in the atonement is the second stated condition. Neither of these conditions will in the end see us home to glory unless we fulfill the third stated Scriptural condition, i.e., remain faithful until the end.

So we see again, DHK limits the Sovereignty of God by telling God He cannot do what Scriptures tell us He did, place conditions for us to fulfill in order to receive and maintain our hope to the end. Secondly DHK refuses to realize that salvation is spoken of in two senses not one. We are NOT involved in salvations plan of the means God chose to accomplish the atonement, so if that is being addressed we are not involved in the least. Still, we are involved in salvation when fulfilling the conditions God has set forth are being addressed, in such matters as repentance, faith, and endurance until the end.

This position is unbiblical. Never does the Bible teach "endurance to the end" as a condition of salvation. That would contradict that the gift of God is "eternal life." HP has a contradiction here. If one doesn't endure to the end he loses that which eternal. Eternal becomes temporary, and Jesus becomes a liar. Jesus didn't lie when he said: "I give unto you eternal life." He meant what he said. He did not say "I give unto you temporary life." Yet, that is what HP believes. He does not believe the words of Jesus, and would infer that Christ lies.

We do not keep ourselves totally by ourselves, but we are required to utilize our wills in obedience to God's commands, looking in faith for Him to provide the necessary way of escape from temptations snare.

It is Christ that keeps me.

Faith is much the same. It is spoke of in two senses as well. God gives to all a measure of faith, by being the object necessary for faith to exist, and giving us the abilities to exercise faith. We do not create faith in and of ourselves, for the object of faith rests in God and not man, God pre-existing the state of man, having no beginning, and that by necessity.

Even little children have faith. It is inherent with man. Jesus said you must have faith as a child to inherit the kingdom of God. Thus little children have faith. It is the object of the faith that is important.

Still yet, man must exercise his will in agreement to the measure of faith given to us by God in order to do anything pleasing to God. So, man is not involved in the measure of faith we are all initially given, but our wills are directly involved in exercising faith in a manner pleasing to God.

The object of our faith must be Christ.

Conclusion: Salvation is thought of in two senses not one.

Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. It is a one time act.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God (Rom.5:1).

Faith is also thought of in two senses not one. In one sense faith is not a work (speaking of the measure of faith given to all) yet it is a work in the sense that one must exercise their will in accordance to God's truth in order to do anything pleasing to Him.

In neither sense is it a work.

Without faith, in this latter sense, i.e., the will of man choosing of its own volition to place ones faith in God, exercising obedience in agreement to His stated conditions and in the atonement, it is impossible to please God.

Choosing is not a work. You can choose to believe me or not; how is that a work? Faith is not a work.

 

[Moriah]

HP: When one is speaking in the sense of the 'grounds' of salvation alone, I agree with you. No man had or has anything to do with the plan of salvation or the means by which God chose to redeem mankind.
What DHK refuse to understand is first God's sovereignty. A sovereign God can choose to place any condition on receiving salvation He so desires. Scripture, NOT my philosophy, has set forth the conditions of receiving salvation and keeping it to the end. God's word is clear. Repentance is the first clearly stated condition, without which no one will be saved. Exercising our will in faith in the atonement is the second stated condition. Neither of these conditions will in the end see us home to glory unless we fulfill the third stated Scriptural condition, i.e., remain faithful until the end.

So we see again, DHK limits the Sovereignty of God by telling God He cannot do what Scriptures tell us He did, place conditions for us to fulfill in order to receive and maintain our hope to the end. Secondly DHK refuses to realize that salvation is spoken of in two senses not one. We are NOT involved in salvations plan of the means God chose to accomplish the atonement, so if that is being addressed we are not involved in the least. Still, we are involved in salvation when fulfilling the conditions God has set forth are being addressed, in such matters as repentance, faith, and endurance until the end. We do not keep ourselves totally by ourselves, but we are required to utilize our wills in obedience to God's commands, looking in faith for Him to provide the necessary way of escape from temptations snare.

Faith is much the same. It is spoke of in two senses as well. God gives to all a measure of faith, by being the object necessary for faith to exist, and giving us the abilities to exercise faith. We do not create faith in and of ourselves, for the object of faith rests in God and not man, God pre-existing the state of man, having no beginning, and that by necessity. Still yet, man must exercise his will in agreement to the measure of faith given to us by God in order to do anything pleasing to God. So, man is not involved in the measure of faith we are all initially given, but our wills are directly involved in exercising faith in a manner pleasing to God.

Conclusion: Salvation is thought of in two senses not one.

Faith is also thought of in two senses not one. In one sense faith is not a work (speaking of the measure of faith given to all) yet it is a work in the sense that one must exercise their will in accordance to God's truth in order to do anything pleasing to Him. Without faith, in this latter sense, i.e., the will of man choosing of its own volition to place ones faith in God, exercising obedience in agreement to His stated conditions and in the atonement, it is impossible to please God.

What you say here, all should read it, study it, and learn.
This was a joy and blessing to read.

 

[JonC]

Scripture never portrays the choice to have faith as a work. New Testament authors viewed “works” as referring to the works of the law. God’s righteousness does not come by external obedience to the law, as some Jews of their day supposed. God’s righteousness cannot be earned, it comes only as a gift (Rom. 4:4-16). But the New Testament clearly teaches that the gift must be accepted by faith. For by grace we have been saved through faith and not of ourselves (Eph. 2:8).

The idea that one must endure to the end to be saved is certainly not unbiblical - it's actually a bible verse in itself (“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved” Matthew 24:13). But if salvation is a gift from God and not the result of works (Eph 2:8-9), then it also makes since that you cannot “work” your way out of salvation. It is a work of God from beginning to end. We endure through Him, it is not our endurance but Christ in us. By grace we are saved through faith, we endure through the grace of God. Those who do not endure are not saved. Those who are among us, but who do not endure and who leave the faith were not really of us (1 Jn 2:9).

 

[Moriah]

The idea that one must endure to the end to be saved is certainly not unbiblical - it's actually a bible verse in itself (“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved” Matthew 24:13). But if salvation is a gift from God and not the result of works (Eph 2:8-9), then it also makes since that you cannot “work” your way out of salvation.

See how you admit it is scripture to say we must endure until the end, but then you say, "But if...”. You change the scripture when you say that.

It is a work of God from beginning to end. We endure through Him, it is not our endurance but Christ in us. By grace we are saved through faith, we endure through the grace of God. Those who do not endure are not saved. Those who are among us, but who do not endure and who leave the faith were not really of us (1 Jn 2:9).

If they had endured, would they not have been saved? Of course, they would have, because that is what Jesus says, that if we endure to the end we will be saved.

Why do people teach that we do not have to do anything? Even enduring through Him is something WE HAVE TO DO.

 

[DHK]

Why do people teach that we do not have to do anything? Even enduring through Him is something WE HAVE TO DO.

Because salvation is of Christ; not of man.