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Faith? Where does it come from?
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
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ONCE you ignore the facts if the fall in ADAM you cannot get any of your theology correct.
We all sinned and died in Adam.rom3:23.only those In Christ will be saved.
If God did not give a person saving faith.....they are not saved.
So, by extension, you are saying DHK is not saved. Understand.
How does one "cho(o)se Him" Whom they despise, hate, and consider an enemy?
People will never choose to willfully serve their enemy, non?
ITL
You quoted what I posted...that statement is accurate and I will give you more
Anyone who is not ordained to eternal life will not be saved.
Anyone who is not elect will not be saved
Anyone not given by the Father to the Son will not be saved
So, you don't think DHK is saved.
I know he is your hero.....but he is off topic...
This thread is about saving faith.Where does saving faith come from.
I think many things ITL....
I don't think that is what he said. The "extension" is your own, not his.
Iconoclast said, "If God did not give a person saving faith.....they are not saved."
That is a correct general statement. However, he did not say DHK was not saved. I understood him to be implying that DHK has faith, he just isn't sure where it came from.
I have heard many people say, when giving a testimony, that they heard the gospel and from somewhere deep down inside them the faith welled up and they were convinced the gospel was true.
I praise the Lord for each such person who is saved, but had they investigated just a bit more closely they would have found there was no place deep down inside them that was unfallen and thus could produce such faith. They have, as of yet, failed to see that the source of that new found faith was not of themselves, it was a gift from God.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
How is 'Craigbythesea' able to post with 'banned' under his username? Or was he just banned?
I wondered the same thing because I saw it said banned this morning under his moniker but he has since posted.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
It's hilarious that these fickle folks on here rush in to defend the great fabricator! Recently he called me unsaved, but I don't care about all that, but if it is against the rules then as a 'mod' he should be a leader by example. Anyhow, I love to note the grandstanding of his disciples to protect him, LOL!!!!
Wrong definition. They are not dead, as in a corpse, totally unable to respond. If they were then Adam would have not been able to respond to God. God said to Adam: "In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Adam ate; Adam died.
Then Adam, being dead, proceeded to carry on an audible conversation with God. Your theology says this is impossible for Adam is a spiritual corpse. But he is not. He is simply spiritually separated from God, and therefore able to respond to God. He is not restored to fellowship with God until the blood of an animal is shed, "for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin."
Tell me:
How can a dead Adam being dead still continue to talk to God?
The answer: Death simply means separation from God.
Any man is free to call upon the name of the Lord. He always was until Calvin told you differently, but that didn't change God's mind.
And then we have this interesting Scripture:
Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
--What was the impetus here?
Even MacArthur makes an interesting comment here:
They turned to God, he says. How do men turn to God? In faith of course.
The very scripture you use, denies your position, but you are too blind to see that.
John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John records that Jesus did many miracles. The other gospels record about 35, but the Gospel of John centers around seven specific miracles. Why? These miracles are are recorded "that you might believe that Jesus is the Messiah." They demonstrate the deity of Christ and have a purpose to bring one to faith in Christ. Note it is their faith in Christ. Nothing is said about any divine faith. That would have to be read into the scripture just like the RCC reads into the scripture baptismal regeneration and infant baptism. The faith belongs to the individual, the unsaved individual. Nowhere is it even implied that it is given by God. That YOU might believe that Jesus is the Christ.
Now, having done that, you might continue to believe to believe. The Christian life is a life of believing, a walk of faith. But it starts out with one believing or having faith in Christ. Don't read more into scripture than is already there.
The trouble with your position is that it is not biblical. There is no biblical support for it.I am willing to admit that after greater than 1,800 years of debating, we're not gonna settle this all by ourselves.
I disagree with you. I know, color you shocked, right?
Are you really admitting you don't understand the difference between spiritual death and physical death? Or are you joking?
He is spiritually dead. Correct. His life is now limited to the life of the flesh. He is now dead in trespass and sin. This is so simple. This is children's Sunday School level.
Faith is innate. All men have faith. It is the object of faith that is important. I put my faith in Christ, and was therefore saved.
When the rich young ruler was confronted by Christ he went away sorrowful. He was not willing to put his faith in Christ for he had much riches. He was willing to trust his riches (which became an idol to him), rather than to trust Christ which is far greater.
Who knows the reasons why neighbors, friends, relatives, etc., do not trust Christ: pride, devotion to their own religion, devotion to an unsaved spouse or other relative, etc. I don't know. I have been given different reasons on different occasions and some of them have been pretty strange. All have resulted in a rejection of Christ. But it was their choice, and someday they will regret that choice, and give account for it. They will have no one to blame but themselves.
Where does the bible teach that all have faith, IE, it is innate in the human condition?
So you are saying you were superior to your neighbor in that you had the good sense to put your faith in Christ while he was too stupid to do so and that is why you are saved and he is lost? You are better than him?
The Bible gives us these various definitions:Are you really admitting you don't understand the difference between spiritual death and physical death? Or are you joking?
He is spiritually dead. Correct. His life is now limited to the life of the flesh. He is now dead in trespass and sin. This is so simple. This is children's Sunday School level.
1. Physical death.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
--When the spirit is separated from the body it is physical death. Even doctors realize this.
2. Spiritual death:
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
When a man is separated from God he is spiritually dead. He needs to be reconciled to God. We as believers have the ministry of reconciliation that we should not neglect.
3. Eternal death.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
--I believe death and live are being contrasted here, that is eternal life to eternal death.
The wages of sin will result in eternal death, eternal separation from God.
Trusting Christ, accepting his gift of salvation will result in eternal life, an eternity of life with Him.
4. The Second death.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
--The final sentence of death. Again it is eternal death or eternal damnation in the Lake of Fire.
I do believe there is a death that applies to believers as well. Believers become separated from God when they sin. God does not listen to their prayers and is deaf to them, or they are as dead to him, until they repent and fellowship is restored. This is what happened with Adam. Adam was indeed dead, separated from God, until blood was shed and fellowship restored.
The concept is also spoken of in Psalm 66:18
Psalms 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
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