Faith? Where does it come from?

[Craigbythesea]

The fact that Jesus asserts his deity makes his promise of eternal life all that more certain.
Thus the words of verse 28 are words you have not addressed yet:
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
You have yet to deal with the meaning of those words. God doesn't lie. He promises eternal life. This indeed is a promise of eternal security. It can't be taken any other way even if the context is as you say: the deity of Christ.

This changes nothing of the promise to his sheep that he gives to them eternal life; eternal security. It is simply a red herring. You are evading the meaning of the verse.

Are you a Catholic? This book is not even in the Bible; is not inspired. The Book of Wisdom is apocryphal. It contains errors. It is not of God. Again it is just another red herring.

Here is an example from the same chapter:
10: But the ungodly shall be punished according to their own imaginations, which have neglected the righteous, and forsaken the Lord.
--Will the wicked be judged according to their imagination? Is that the basis of judgment?
The basis of judgment is the rejection of God.

Here is another questionable teaching:
14: And blessed is the eunuch, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for unto him shall be given the special gift of faith, and an inheritance in the temple of the Lord more acceptable to his mind.
--Where does the Bible teach that a eunuch will receive "a special gift of faith'?

Where does it say anything about departing from Christ? You are reading that into the passage. That is your philosophy.
He said his gift was eternal life. Was he lying? What does "eternal" mean?
What does "never perish" mean?
Your post evades these questions that you are not able to answer.

The context of Isa. 43:13, quoted above, is important to the understanding of that verse and of John 10:27-29.

1. But now, thus says the LORD, your Creator, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel, “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!
2. “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you.
3. “For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place.
4. “Since you are precious in My sight, Since you are honored and I love you, I will give other men in your place and other peoples in exchange for your life.
5. “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
6. “I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ And to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’ Bring My sons from afar And My daughters from the ends of the earth,
7. Everyone who is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, Whom I have formed, even whom I have made.”
8. Bring out the people who are blind, even though they have eyes, And the deaf, even though they have ears.
9. All the nations have gathered together So that the peoples may be assembled. Who among them can declare this And proclaim to us the former things? Let them present their witnesses that they may be justified, Or let them hear and say, “It is true.”
10. “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
11. “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
12. “It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,.” declares the LORD, “And I am God.
13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”
14. Thus says the LORD your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, “For your sake I have sent to Babylon, And will bring them all down as fugitives, Even the Chaldeans, into the ships in which they rejoice.
15. “I am the LORD, your Holy One, The Creator of Israel, your King.” (NASB, 1995)
16. Thus says the LORD, Who makes a way through the sea And a path through the mighty waters,
17. Who brings forth the chariot and the horse, The army and the mighty man (They will lie down together and not rise again; They have been quenched and extinguished like a wick):
18. “Do not call to mind the former things, Or ponder things of the past.
19. “Behold, I will do something new, Now it will spring forth; Will you not be aware of it? I will even make a roadway in the wilderness, Rivers in the desert.
20. “The beasts of the field will glorify Me, The jackals and the ostriches, Because I have given waters in the wilderness And rivers in the desert, To give drink to My chosen people.
21. “The people whom I formed for Myself Will declare My praise.
22. “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel.
23. “You have not brought to Me the sheep of your burnt offerings, Nor have you honored Me with your sacrifices. I have not burdened you with offerings, Nor wearied you with incense.
24. “You have bought Me not sweet cane with money, Nor have you filled Me with the fat of your sacrifices; Rather you have burdened Me with your sins, You have wearied Me with your iniquities.
25. “I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins.
26. “Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together; State your cause, that you may be proved right.
27. “Your first forefather sinned, And your spokesmen have transgressed against Me.
28. “So I will pollute the princes of the sanctuary, And I will consign Jacob to the ban and Israel to revilement.” (NASB, 1995)

In spite of all that God did for Israel, and in spite of all of God’s promises to be faithful to Israel, Israel chose to disobey God and became reviled in His sight. The very same thing has been true of countless Christians whom God saved, blessed, and made promises to be faithful to—promises that were conditional upon their faithfully abiding in Christ. Indeed, in John 10:28, Jesus made the same promise to His people that God made to His people in Isaiah 43:13, and yet later in the same chapter of Isaiah, we read that many of His people departed from His hand and became reviled in His sight. Christians who choose to remain in the hand of God remain secure in their salvation; Christians who do not choose to remain in the hand of God lose their salvation.

As for Wisdom 3:1, is that verse true—or is it not?

 

[InTheLight]

Duh! Believers!

How many atheists do you know who believe God created the universe?

None. But I know plenty of unregenerate Catholics, Lutherans, and yes, Baptists that think God created the universe. They're not believers and they take creation on faith.

 

[DHK]

Heb. 10:28. Anyone who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy “on the testimony of two or three witnesses.”
29. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (NRSV)

Yes, the author (who was definitely NOT Paul) is comparing two covenants—the covenant of the Law vs. the covenant of grace. An unregenerate Jew who sins under the covenant of the Law shall be judged and punished according the Law. A Christian who has “spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace” shall deserve a much worse punishment. There is NOTHING hypothetical about any of this. The Greek verb δοκέω translated as ‘suppose’ or ‘think’ is not, in our passage here, in the subjunctive mood—it is in the indicative mood, the mood of affirmation! Furthermore—how many non-Christians have you met who were sanctified by the blood of Christ while yet unbelievers?

The fact is, he is making a comparison. Throughout the book there is a comparison between the covenant of the Law (as you say) and the covenant of grace. They cannot go back. They must go forward.
Read the book:
They can't go back to OT system of worship:
1. They can't go back to having many priests; there is only one priest.
2. In the OT there was a High Priest; in the NT, a Great High Priest; they can't go back.
3. In the OT there were many sacrifices; in the NT one sacrifice offered forever; they can't go back.
4. In the OT a Levitical priesthood after Aaron; in the NT Christ a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek; they can't go back.
5. In the OT the priest interceded for them; in the NT we are priests and come before our High Priest making intercession; they can't go back. There are so many contrasts here.

This passage also shows how one cannot go back it is impossible for a true believer to go back to Judaism just as a true believer could not go back to Islam. Impossible.

The history of the interpretation of the Epistle to the Hebrews is very well known—and it is known for an incontrovertible fact that prior to the 16th century, the “warning passages” were universally interpreted by Christians as warnings of a very real—and all too frequent—reality. The same is true of the writings attributed to John the Evangelist and to Peter. Indeed, the doctrine of eternal security is not found in any extra-biblical writing prior to the 16th century, but the doctrine of conditional security is found in many hundreds of extra-biblical writings from that period. Consequently, the reality is that the Bible very clearly teaches the doctrine of conditional security rather than the doctrine of eternal security—but something happened in the 16th century that cause the Bible to be interpreted in a radically new and novel manner unlike anyone had interpreted it before. The Ante-Nicene Church Fathers explicitly taught from the Scriptures the doctrine of conditional security; and these were the very same Church Fathers whom God chose to use to establish the New Testament Canon and to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity. They were not heretics or fools—they were Christian scholars who wrote before something awful happened in the 16th century causing a substantial minority of the Church to go horribly astray from the teaching of the Bible.

You will come to realize I don't care much about history. It is unreliable.
My authority is the Word of God. I suggest you use it.

Moreover, if the Bible was so poorly written that no one was able, until the 16th century, to understand even its teaching on salvation, the Bible cannot possibly be the inspired Word of God—but rather it is junk literature written by men with ridiculously poor writing skills. But no, the Bible is the inspired Word of God—and it was so very well and clearly written that for the first 1,500 years of the Church the doctrine of the conditional security of the believer was universally understood—and it continues to be understood by the very large majority of Christians today, including many Baptists.

I understand the Bible. Why don't you? All that you demonstrate here are two things:
1. You have a warped view of history.
2. You cannot explain the Word of God. In fact you have avoided it.

Faith comes from hearing the gospel, but faith that is not exercised all too often wanes—sometimes till there is nothing left of it.

Good, then listen to the Word of God, and answer what I have put before you. Don't avoid it.

 

[DHK]

Well...lemme see...

There's John 1:13, & 3:3, Romans 9:16, Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26, all of these happen to men in a passive manner. It is once God has done His part people can do theirs and not before.

You will have to do better than that. Take one verse and show how it supports your position. For example, John 1:13 does not contradict verse 12. And verse 12 is not passive.

 

[DHK]

Well...lemme see...

There's John 1:13, & 3:3, Romans 9:16, Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26, all of these happen to men in a passive manner. It is once God has done His part people can do theirs and not before.

You will have to do better than that. Take one verse and show how it supports your position. For example, John 1:13 does not contradict verse 12. And verse 12 is not passive.

 

[DHK]

I think because of the following ----- For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Rom 7:18, 8:8 & Heb 11:6 ------ If God has not called one to come and given one the Holy Spirit, one can not have faith, that is be a believer nor please God.

When you string verses together like that you take them out of context and make them mean what they are not intended to mean.
In Romans 7 Paul is speaking of his old nature. In that nature there dwells no good thing.
In the flesh he cannot please God.
But then you make this jump to the middle of Hebrews 11, a chapter speaking of the heroes of faith, men of faith, who walk by faith, and it has nothing to do with the old nature whatsoever.

What does Heb.11:6 say again:
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
--Yes, without faith one cannot please God. Does it tell you the source of faith there? No, it does not.
It simply says about each and every individual that "by faith" they pleased God.
By "whose faith"? By their own faith, is the proper answer. No other logical answer can fit that question.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
By faith Abel offered up his sacrifice. Whose faith. It plainly says, "Abel's faith." You have to read into the scriptures to come to any other conclusion.

 

[DHK]

In spite of all that God did for Israel, and in spite of all of God’s promises to be faithful to Israel, Israel chose to disobey God and became reviled in His sight. The very same thing has been true of countless Christians whom God saved, blessed, and made promises to be faithful to—promises that were conditional upon their faithfully abiding in Christ. Indeed, in John 10:28, Jesus made the same promise to His people that God made to His people in Isaiah 43:13, and yet later in the same chapter of Isaiah, we read that many of His people departed from His hand and became reviled in His sight. Christians who choose to remain in the hand of God remain secure in their salvation; Christians who do not choose to remain in the hand of God lose their salvation.

As for Wisdom 3:1, is that verse true—or is it not?

All of this is irrelevant. You ignore John 10:28. That is what is relevant. You ignore basic meanings of works. You would rather hop down bunny trails instead.

 

[SovereignGrace]

DHK,

"He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."[John 1:12,13]

Now, who were the ones that received Him, who believed in His name? Those who were born of God. Now let's travel to 1 John 4 to prove my point here.

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God."[1 John 7:4]

Now, this is speaking of divine love, being born by/of God via the new birth(regeneration). Knowing God in this verse is speaking intimately knowing God, akin to Adam knowing Eve in an intimate encounter.

The unregenerate are hostile towards God. Hate Him in word and deed. It takes a birth of the Spirit to cause a sinner to love Him. This is the same with faith. People love their wife, family, neighbors, &c. But that's not the same love people have towards God. Just like faith. The faith people have towards their fellow man is different than the faith they have in God. Divine love and faith are given by God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

"It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy."[Romans 9:16]

This verse should be self explanatory, but it apparently isn't. No matter how hard people try to love God, unless divinely born by God's Spirit, they will remain hostile towards God. It takes God to start and finish salvation. Unless God starts, man can not love Him, in fact, they will not love Him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh."[Ezekiel 11:19]

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."[Ezekiel 36:26]

Both of these are done solely by God.

 

[InTheLight]

I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh."[Ezekiel 11:19]

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."[Ezekiel 36:26]

Both of these are done solely by God.

I don't see the word "faith" anywhere in those verses.

Furthermore, go back several chapters.
Ez. 18:30 “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

The ability to believe, the ability to love, etc. is innate.
Even as a young child you exercised those abilities with your parents.

Brother DHK,

The ability to love God is conditioned upon Him first loving us, therefore it is not innate capability that man has as a potential since it is conditioned upon something that is external to the person. "We love him, because he first loved us" (1 John 4:19). Here it is shown the cause of our love for God is God first loving us which produces the effectual effect of us loving Him, but the fact that not all men love God is evidence that not all men are loved of God, if they were, you would see the effect of all men loving God as a result of the cause of God loving them.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I don't see the word "faith" anywhere in those verses.

Furthermore, go back several chapters.
Ez. 18:30 “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit.

Brother InTheLight,

The Israelites of the house of Israel in Ezekiel 18, had turned away from their obedience to the law, and were exposed to the penalties of the law, which was death, but as the covenant which they were under contained this provision, they were called on by the prophet to reform, and live, to cast away all their transgressions, make them a new heart and a new spirit, and they should live. Thus showing that the salvation which was typified in the law, was such a salvation as could only be effected by that divine power which is required to make a new heart, and to create within them a right spirit, and that no man can perform this work the prophet shows; In chapter 36 the Lord says, “I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.” “Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen.” “And I will sanctify my great name,” etc. “For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.” By comparing Ezekiel 18:31,32, with chapter 36 we see what the law demands. Who is able to make himself a new heart? Who can create in himself a new spirit? Or who is able to cast away all his transgressions? Those who know the law despair of ever being able to meet its requisitions. But God reveals from heaven his method of grace and salvation, and proclaims what he himself will do, and in the Scriptures copied from Ezekiel 36, promises to meet every requisition demanded in Ezekiel 18:31, and to do it for his own name’s sake.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't see the word "faith" anywhere in those verses.

Furthermore, go back several chapters.
Ez. 18:30 “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit.

See post #253. Bro. Joseph answered you better than I could.

 

[Iconoclast]

The context of Isa. 43:13, quoted above, is important to the understanding of that verse and of John 10:27-29.

1. But now, thus says the LORD, your Creator, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel, “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!
2. “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you.
3. “For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place.
4. “Since you are precious in My sight, Since you are honored and I love you, I will give other men in your place and other peoples in exchange for your life.
5. “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
6. “I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ And to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’ Bring My sons from afar And My daughters from the ends of the earth,
7. Everyone who is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, Whom I have formed, even whom I have made.”
8. Bring out the people who are blind, even though they have eyes, And the deaf, even though they have ears.
9. All the nations have gathered together So that the peoples may be assembled. Who among them can declare this And proclaim to us the former things? Let them present their witnesses that they may be justified, Or let them hear and say, “It is true.”
10. “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
11. “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
12. “It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,.” declares the LORD, “And I am God.
13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”
14. Thus says the LORD your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, “For your sake I have sent to Babylon, And will bring them all down as fugitives, Even the Chaldeans, into the ships in which they rejoice.
15. “I am the LORD, your Holy One, The Creator of Israel, your King.” (NASB, 1995)
16. Thus says the LORD, Who makes a way through the sea And a path through the mighty waters,
17. Who brings forth the chariot and the horse, The army and the mighty man (They will lie down together and not rise again; They have been quenched and extinguished like a wick):
18. “Do not call to mind the former things, Or ponder things of the past.
19. “Behold, I will do something new, Now it will spring forth; Will you not be aware of it? I will even make a roadway in the wilderness, Rivers in the desert.
20. “The beasts of the field will glorify Me, The jackals and the ostriches, Because I have given waters in the wilderness And rivers in the desert, To give drink to My chosen people.
21. “The people whom I formed for Myself Will declare My praise.
22. “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel.
23. “You have not brought to Me the sheep of your burnt offerings, Nor have you honored Me with your sacrifices. I have not burdened you with offerings, Nor wearied you with incense.
24. “You have bought Me not sweet cane with money, Nor have you filled Me with the fat of your sacrifices; Rather you have burdened Me with your sins, You have wearied Me with your iniquities.
25. “I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins.
26. “Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together; State your cause, that you may be proved right.
27. “Your first forefather sinned, And your spokesmen have transgressed against Me.
28. “So I will pollute the princes of the sanctuary, And I will consign Jacob to the ban and Israel to revilement.” (NASB, 1995)

In spite of all that God did for Israel, and in spite of all of God’s promises to be faithful to Israel, Israel chose to disobey God and became reviled in His sight. The very same thing has been true of countless Christians whom God saved, blessed, and made promises to be faithful to—promises that were conditional upon their faithfully abiding in Christ. Indeed, in John 10:28, Jesus made the same promise to His people that God made to His people in Isaiah 43:13, and yet later in the same chapter of Isaiah, we read that many of His people departed from His hand and became reviled in His sight. Christians who choose to remain in the hand of God remain secure in their salvation; Christians who do not choose to remain in the hand of God lose their salvation.

As for Wisdom 3:1, is that verse true—or is it not?

CBSea,
God saves His people by Covenant....not by works that men do, but rather by the perfect work of the Son.

Not all who were members of OT Israel....were of the Israel of God. These were covenant breakers.
In the NT. all in the New Covenant will be saved, kept by the power of God.

Wisdom...is not scripture at all.....it was rejected by the believing church.

 

[Iconoclast]

"Craigbythesea,

The life given to Christians is eternal,

There is only two realms...life and death...both are eternal....
You have one or the other.
If you have life.....it is eternal.....A person Cannot have life unless the Spirit permanently indwells him

but our possession of that life is conditional upon our continued faith in

,

no....Christians are kept by the power of God. They will perservere by God's grace

take a moment to learn the truth here;

Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saints
1._____ Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.
( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )
2._____ This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )
3._____ And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.
( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )

Then we can deal with the other errors....

 

[Iconoclast]

Well, if you read Hebrews 11:2 it says:

"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command"

So we must have a tiny bit of faith to realize that God created the universe.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

What is God saying when He says, "People are without excuse"? If people are not given even a tiny sliver of faith based on observing creation, what do they need an excuse for?

Hebrews is written to Christians.

ITL...did you know that faith in the bible....is always said to be...BY...or THROUGH faith, never is it said to be.....BECAUSE OF FAITH

 

[DHK]

DHK,

"He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."[John 1:12,13]

Now, who were the ones that received Him, who believed in His name? Those who were born of God. Now let's travel to 1 John 4 to prove my point here.

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God."[1 John 7:4]

No, let's not. You are looking at the conclusion of the whole matter. Let's look at the cause and the context.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
--Christ, the Messiah, came to his own nation, Israel, and they of their own free will rejected Him. Someday they will be held accountable for that decision.

In contrast:
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
--Those that received Christ were given the right to become the children of God on the basis of their believing on His name. This is the crux of this passage. It must harmonize, and not contradict verse 13.
The basis of the new birth is believing in Christ. Those who have "accepted" or received Christ are the ones that have been given the right to become the children of God. One is not naturally born a child of God, he is given the right to become a child of God on the basis of the new birth which involves "receiving Christ." That is where he receives this "right."

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
...those that believe on his name which were born...of God.
What is important here is that the birth of a child of God is a supernatural birth. The work on the cross was Christ's work, God's work of salvation for mankind. Accordingly, a person must welcome this work by faith, and receive it, and then allow the Holy Spirit to do His work of regeneration that only God can do. It is a work of God. Where else does the Bible speak of the new birth:

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--It is impossible to be born again without the Word of God. One is born again by the Word of God. The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God to bring a person to Christ. One must receive by faith the offer of salvation which God gives to man. Our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. That is where our confidence in the gospel message and in the promises of God will come from.

Now, this is speaking of divine love, being born by/of God via the new birth(regeneration). Knowing God in this verse is speaking intimately knowing God, akin to Adam knowing Eve in an intimate encounter.

The consequence of being born again.

The unregenerate are hostile towards God. Hate Him in word and deed. It takes a birth of the Spirit to cause a sinner to love Him. This is the same with faith. People love their wife, family, neighbors, &c. But that's not the same love people have towards God. Just like faith. The faith people have towards their fellow man is different than the faith they have in God. Divine love and faith are given by God.

The unregenerate is separated from God and needs to be reconciled to God. Faith is faith. You have no scripture to show that God gives faith to the unregenerate. That entire principle is so very unbiblical. Does he give the rest of the fruit of the Spirit to the unregenerate? Does he give all the spiritual gifts to the unregenerate? Does he make apostles from the unregenerate? Why are you so selective? Why just "faith"

 

[InTheLight]

Hebrews is written to Christians.

So what? Romans is written to Christians as well. Are the people being discussed in the last half of Romans 1 referring to Christians?

ITL...did you know that faith in the bible....is always said to be...BY...or THROUGH faith, never is it said to be.....BECAUSE OF FAITH[/QUOTE]

So what?

 

[InTheLight]

See post #253. Bro. Joseph answered you better than I could.

It's a good answer. However, my point stands--faith in not mentioned in those verses about hearts of stone and of flesh.