False prophets and their many books

[DaveXR650]

I've always liked to read and I noticed years ago that many of the books I found to be worthwhile had a Calvinistic influence. "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ", "The Mortification of Sin", both by Owen. "Calvin's Institutes", anything by Jonathan Edwards. Then there's "Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers" by John R. Rice.

But I have to admit that in a sense MB has a point. I have come to realize after being in the Reformed Baptist type Calvinist movement for about 12 years that at the organizational level it is largely a book selling industry. And the modern stuff being pumped out make "Bobbed Hair" look scholarly. I was a deacon several years ago and we had to read 7 books, all from Crossway, or 9Marks. Many of the books are a waste of paper. Every bible study, every guest speaker even most elders have a book for you to buy. It has gotten ridiculous.

(By the way, my reference to John R. Rice's book is just in fun. I like him and his commentary on Acts is excellent and I also have his book on how to be saved and one on the cults.)

 

[Yeshua1]

John wrote
1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
You see what I mean even you can be mistaken.
MB

The anointing them refers to us being able by the Holy Spirit to call upon Jesus as Lord, but not that we will now have all knowledge of the scriptures and of all doctrines!

 

[MB]

And noticed they searched together...hmm. what does that tell you? We aren't meant to be Islands.

I never said we should that comes from you. It's your mistake you do the same with scripture as you do in everyday conversations. You just can't see the truth of a matter as long as carry around your preconceived thoughts about a subject
In stead you should check it out with scripture.
MB

 

[MB]

The anointing them refers to us being able by the Holy Spirit to call upon Jesus as Lord, but not that we will now have all knowledge of the scriptures and of all doctrines!

So you say but I just threw it out with the trash.
MB

 

[John of Japan]

John wrote
1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
You see what I mean even you can be mistaken.
MB

Well, duh. Of course I can be wrong. But that is very far from saying that God cannot use me as a Bible teacher. Please be frank. Are you actually saying that we should never be taught by anyone but the Holy Spirit?

I gave you Scripture about Godly teachers in Acts 13. You have never commented on that. Do you believe the Bible? What about Eph. 4:11-12, "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."

Do you believe these Scriptures?

 

[Reformed1689]

I never said we should that comes from you. It's your mistake you do the same with scripture as you do in everyday conversations. You just can't see the truth of a matter as long as carry around your preconceived thoughts about a subject
In stead you should check it out with scripture.
MB

The implication was there. You are talking about we should try to get understanding from others, yet we see in Scripture we should.

 

[MB]

Well, duh. Of course I can be wrong. But that is very far from saying that God cannot use me as a Bible teacher. Please be frank. Are you actually saying that we should never be taught by anyone but the Holy Spirit?

I gave you Scripture about Godly teachers in Acts 13. You have never commented on that. Do you believe the Bible? What about Eph. 4:11-12, "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."
Do you believe these Scriptures?

I believe all of scripture except where the fool says there is no God
I agree with those passages. He did provide teachers. How is we know they are in fact Godly. There is not one of us that can't be fooled if we are not careful to Guard our Hearts and minds even what we see.


What I'm trying to get across is what the Bereans did ("Pardon my spelling"). It is good to hear the gospel but with earnest look it over good to be sure what you are being told is accurate. Far too many just take the speakers word for it.
MB.

 

[Reformed1689]

I believe all of scripture except where the fool says there is no God

Wait, so there is part of Scripture you do not believe?

 

[John of Japan]

John wrote
1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
You see what I mean even you can be mistaken.
MB

No, you said that the Lord said that, and in the NT that phrase is referring to something Jesus taught. Jesus never taught that we need no human teachers.

Now as for what God inspired the Apostle John to write, yes, he wrote 1 John 2:27, but you are sadly mistaken about what he meant there. You must compare Scripture with Scripture, something you have not done. When John spoke of the Holy Spirit as our teacher, he was speaking about how the Holy Spirit teaches specifically about Christ (John 14:26, 15:26, 16:12-15).

Now the Bible never contradicts itself. So how about all of these passages, in addition to the ones I've already mentioned (Acts 131-3, Eph. 4:11-12) that tell us having and being a human teacher is good:

1 Cor. 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
1 Tim. 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1 Tim. 6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise [them], because they are brethren; but rather do [them] service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
2 Tim. 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Heb. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Notice especially 2 Tim. 2:2, where Paul commands Timothy to teach, and notice the immaturity of the Hebrew believers in Heb. 5:12, who should have been teachers but were not. You should be a Bible teacher; shame on you if you are not.

Think also about the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20. We are to teach, to "disciple" if you will, those we win to Christ.

Have you won anyone to Christ lately? If so, are you teaching them to be a good Christian, discipling them? If not, you should be. You are commanded to be a teacher by the Lord Jesus Himself.

 

[AustinC]

I believe all of scripture except where the fool says there is no God
I agree with those passages. He did provide teachers. How is we know they are in fact Godly. There is not one of us that can't be fooled if we are not careful to Guard our Hearts and minds even what we see.


What I'm trying to get across is what the Bereans did ("Pardon my spelling"). It is good to hear the gospel but with earnest look it over good to be sure what you are being told is accurate. Far too many just take the speakers word for it.
MB.

Yet, no one here is taking a speakers word for it. I have always addressed the Bible alone when talking to you. I share what I observe in the Bible. However, the response back will invariably be..."Calvinist"...even when all I have done is make direct observation of scripture.
This tells me that "Calvin..." is a strawman/boogeyman response to my observation of scripture. It tells me you (and a few others) have no biblical answer to what I observe so you divert the discussion away from the text of scripture so you aren't forced to deal with the text.

If you (and others) want to stick with the text alone, I am all for it. Bring on the text and let iron sharpen iron.

 

[MB]

The implication was there. You are talking about we should try to get understanding from others, yet we see in Scripture we should.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Ther point is not just take peoples word for but to check it with scripture Of course in your case you already know it all

 

[Reformed1689]

Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Ther point is not just take peoples word for but to check it with scripture Of course in your case you already know it all

But that is not what you are arguing in the OP.

 

[MB]

No, you said that the Lord said that, and in the NT that phrase is referring to something Jesus taught. Jesus never taught that we need no human teachers.

Who do you think inspired the new Testament?Are you trying to say that John wrote that on his own and we should just ignore it? Or maybe you'd like to deny it's truth.

Now as for what God inspired the Apostle John to write, yes, he wrote 1 John 2:27, but you are sadly mistaken about what he meant there. You must compare Scripture with Scripture, something you have not done. When John spoke of the Holy Spirit as our teacher, he was speaking about how the Holy Spirit teaches specifically about Christ (John 14:26, 15:26, 16:12-15).

Then explain why even the scripture you mentioned also says the Holy Spirit will teach us all things and not only this but also say He will also bring all things to our memory.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Now the Bible never contradicts itself. So how about all of these passages, in addition to the ones I've already mentioned (Acts 131-3, Eph. 4:11-12) that tell us having and being a human teacher is good:

Act 13:1-3 Says nothing about teaching or teachers.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

I have already agreed that God did give us them. So where do these say these guy's never make any mistakes or that we will not have some who teach heresey who claim they are doing God's work?

1 Cor. 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
1 Tim. 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1 Tim. 6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise [them], because they are brethren; but rather do [them] service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
2 Tim. 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Heb. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Notice especially 2 Tim. 2:2, where Paul commands Timothy to teach, and notice the immaturity of the Hebrew believers in Heb. 5:12, who should have been teachers but were not. You should be a Bible teacher; shame on you if you are not.

Think also about the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20. We are to teach, to "disciple" if you will, those we win to Christ.

Have you won anyone to Christ lately? If so, are you teaching them to be a good Christian, discipling them? If not, you should be. You are commanded to be a teacher by the Lord Jesus Himself
.

I have taught Sunday School some and weather I've won any for Christ only the Lord knows for sure. I can't see there hearts. It would not have been my doing anyway because none of us can with out the Holy Spirit speaking through us. He receives all the Glory He deserves it, I'm just doing my best to serve..
MB

 

[John of Japan]

Who do you think inspired the new Testament? Are you trying to say that John wrote that on his own and we should just ignore it? Or maybe you'd like to deny it's truth.

Absolutely not. Why in the world would you say such a thing? I love the Word of God with all of my heart, and all the truths in it. I read it every day in three different languages. I've translated the NT and some of the OT into Japanese. I love the Bible, and believe all of its truths.

Tell you what. I'm so disgusted by your statement about me denying Bible truth that with this post I'm done talking to you. You have said on this thread that we don't need teachers, and that we don't need books about the Bible. I've tried to get you to respond to some points about that, but you'd rather split hairs. Fine. Go your own way.

Then explain why even the scripture you mentioned also says the Holy Spirit will teach us all things and not only this but also say He will also bring all things to our memory.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Fine. You go ahead and claim you only need the Holy Spirit, and God's man can't help you. I've preached and taught the Gospel for 50 years, but you don't like preachers and Bible teachers to teach you anything. So be it. I'll quit trying.

Act 13:1-3 Says nothing about teaching or teachers.

See verse 1.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

I have already agreed that God did give us them. So where do these say these guy's never make any mistakes or that we will not have some who teach heresey who claim they are doing God's work?

You've said we don't need Bible teachers. The Bible says we do. End of story.

I have taught Sunday School some and weather I've won any for Christ only the Lord knows for sure. I can't see there hearts. It would not have been my doing anyway because none of us can with out the Holy Spirit speaking through us. He receives all the Glory He deserves it, I'm just doing my best to serve..
MB

You missed the point entirely. We are told in Matthew 28:20 that we are to be "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." If you even think some one might have gotten saved through your testimony, you are to teach them what Christ taught. If you don't you are a disobedient Christian. TEACH!

 

[poor-in-spirit]

All must consider the OP friends, he is making the most critical and important point contained on this forum, heed it.

God's pure Word unadulterated by men's tradition will do wonders for you. Listen intently and force yourself to set aside your indoctrination. It really works and it will work for anyone, that is God's True promise to us in His Word. Men's opinions are not sharper than any two edged sword but His Word is. Men's opinions are full of error, His Word is not. He promises His Spirit would guide us in all Truth, if we are truly seeking His Truth out of a pure heart with no other agendas. Remember, faith comes by hearing the Word of God, not your favorite authors opinions.

Have you ever truly considered why there are so many differences among those whom claim our Lord Jesus Christ?

The point being made is that the "gospel message" since the formation of the Mother (Rome) is NOT the same Gospel Message our Lord delivered Himself, nor the same Gospel Message He Reiterated throughout the New Testament Epistles. All the harlots change Jesus' Message, all of them. Some with prayers, some with sacraments, some with works, some with lip-service, some with infant and young child baptism, some with no baptism at all, some with canon, some with creeds, some with confessions and some with their own scripture. ALL this confusion in the Name of Jesus, really? He is not the author of confusion but of peace.

Bread of Life

 

[SovereignGrace]

There, their, there, now.

There, their, they’re…#FIFY

 

[SavedByGrace]

Are you referring to Calvinists here by chance?

Sounds like it

 

[Iconoclast]

JoJ,
Meet MB
In post 49 you offered him solid teaching.
He cannot welcome truth however.
Many offer solid food.
He has no appetite for such truth.
No every person is allowed to welcome truth.
I cannot imagine what he means when he says he taught sunday school. What could he teach that would not be his own words?
The word of a man

 

[AustinC]

All must consider the OP friends, he is making the most critical and important point contained on this forum, heed it.

God's pure Word unadulterated by men's tradition will do wonders for you. Listen intently and force yourself to set aside your indoctrination. It really works and it will work for anyone, that is God's True promise to us in His Word. Men's opinions are not sharper than any two edged sword but His Word is. Men's opinions are full of error, His Word is not. He promises His Spirit would guide us in all Truth, if we are truly seeking His Truth out of a pure heart with no other agendas. Remember, faith comes by hearing the Word of God, not your favorite authors opinions.

Have you ever truly considered why there are so many differences among those whom claim our Lord Jesus Christ?

The point being made is that the "gospel message" since the formation of the Mother (Rome) is NOT the same Gospel Message our Lord delivered Himself, nor the same Gospel Message He Reiterated throughout the New Testament Epistles. All the harlots change Jesus' Message, all of them. Some with prayers, some with sacraments, some with works, some with lip-service, some with infant and young child baptism, some with no baptism at all, some with canon, some with creeds, some with confessions and some with their own scripture. ALL this confusion in the Name of Jesus, really? He is not the author of confusion but of peace.

Bread of Life

Do you realize that there was already division and heresy forming in the days of the Apostles?
God spoke through people and people promptly twisted what they said. Therefore there is no guarantee that just reading the Bible will result in correct doctrine. As I mentioned, Charles Taze Russell read the Bible and translated it. He is the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Hebrews 12:1 reminds us we have a great cloud of witnesses (a legacy of faith) that cheers us on and trains us. We should take heed of their wisdom.

 

[poor-in-spirit]

Do you realize that there was already division and heresy forming in the days of the Apostles?
God spoke through people and people promptly twisted what they said. Therefore there is no guarantee that just reading the Bible will result in correct doctrine. As I mentioned, Charles Taze Russell read the Bible and translated it. He is the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Hebrews 12:1 reminds us we have a great cloud of witnesses (a legacy of faith) that cheers us on and trains us. We should take heed of their wisdom.

Yes my friend, but your example of Russell is exactly what God warns about and the point that is being made. Your example went on to mislead many whom thought like you and it perpetuates to this day. Had this man truly had an open heart to know God's mind the result would have been the humbling of himself as a servant and he certainly would not have sought the mammon of men's recognition. Nor would he felt the need to start another harlot religion and be followed by men. He undoubtedly lied about his history. The key is to remember and study Christ's Teaching in the Gospels which are reiterated in context throughout every book in the NT.

Hebrews 12:1 does not mean what you propose either my friend.