Family Planning

[Sapper Woody]

I can't believe the ideas I'm seeing espoused here. It's simply not logical, nor consistent with God's consistency. Either there is a command to have as many children as possible, or there's not. If there is, then Jesus Himself sinned. If He did not sin, then there is no command to have as many children as possible.

Secondly, if there were such a command, then those who suffer from infertility would be sinning, through no fault of their own. Obviously, this idea is ludicrous. No one would ever say that. But in not saying that, you invalidate your own idea that there is a command to have as many children as possible.

Thirdly, as I stated before, some people can't afford to have children (or more children than they have). Having more children than you can support is in and of itself a sin. The Bible clearly says that a man should provide for his own house. Giving myself as an example again, there is no way I could support another child right now. But, by your logic, I am sinning by obeying God's other command. God doesn't force us to sin; but by your logic He does.

One thing that absolutely irks me (downright makes me angry) is seeing people with so many kids that they can't handle them all. Even if the family can support an enormous family, what ends up happening is that the parents raise the first three to five, and then those three to five end up raising the rest. I've seen it first hand.

The command to be fruitful and multiply has been achieved. We as humans have completely covered the earth.

God's words of "be fruitful and multiply" to me were never a command, but rather a release. Kind of like when I drop my kids off somewhere and say "have fun". I'm not giving them a command that they have to obey. I'm releasing them to enjoy themselves. God's words there ring to me to be along the same lines. To paraphrase, "The earth is yours. Enjoy it. Fill it up with people. Have a good time."

But, again, the absolutely only thing that should have to be said on the matter is simply my first paragraph. Either it's not a sin to have as many children as possible, or Jesus sinned. It honestly really is as simple as that.

 

[Jerome]

Well Tendor you will be missed on this board even though you have not posted in a while. It is nice to see that I'm not the only one who felt that I was the only target in this thread for refusing to use euphemisms about preventing Children. Your defense is appreciated for however long it stays up.

My poor husband had to deal with my ranting about this thread and how much red I was seeing to see such a cavalier attitude toward having children and outright attacks on an infertile women. His response was pretty pithy but would violate TOS if I quoted him. Anyways I appreciate your defense of me.

Huh? Aren't they the same person?

 

[agedman]

I was going to stay out of the discussion, however I sense there is a little bit more of the health issue that needs to be emphasized.

My wife and I have two well grown in to adults.

Both had to be planned, and no more.

After council and prayer, my wife and I both underwent surgery. We felt what was good for one needed support by the other, and the bond of Holiness grew remarkably.

Marriage is honorable, and establishing certain parameters about who one may consider a life partner is wise.

Here is the testimony of a young man who was engaged, twice.

 

[TCassidy]

are you just going to continue to go after the infertile women who prays day and night for children for not "planning" on kids.

Please do not tell falsehoods about what I said or about "going after infertile women" etc. Remember, Jesus is the Truth. To have little regard for the Truth is to have little regard for the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[TCassidy]

So, TCassidy, are you going to expand your targeting to Steven since he agrees with blessedwife or are you going to continue to target a single person like so many bullies I have seen in my life?

I have not targeted anyone. I asked a question which, apparently the person whom I asked was unprepared to answer.

Does anyone think I am off base in calling TCassidy a bully?

No, but you are violating the BB rules. I suggest you read them again.

I realize that calling TCassidy a bully is off topic so maybe I should start a new thread about it.

Probably not a good idea.

TCassidy is abusing his power as an administrator and someone has to say something.

Please cite an example of my abusing my power as an Admin.

So TCassidy, what are you going to do?

I am just going to consider the source. And you?

 

[TCassidy]

As long as I am being slandered and lied about because I asked a simple question, allow me to share our testimony.

When my wife and I were married 42 years ago we planned on having a family as large as God was willing to provide.

We lost a little boy a year later, and we discovered that my wife was no longer able to conceive.

We went through a year of fertility treatments that caused such terrible mood swings that my wife was beside herself, but because we still planned on having children she endured the terrible side effects of the medications.

After a year the doctor said there was nothing more he could do and we should resign ourselves to being childless.

Instead of giving up we made other plans. We told the Lord we were willing to adopt. Not just adopt any child, but one He sent to us. If He had some children who were "special needs" we would take them. All that He would send.

We did so. And have adult children and adult grandchildren, and even great grandchildren today. And every one was planned. Planned by God Himself.

Do I believe in family planning? You bet I do! God has a plan and we bow the knee to His plans.

 

[agedman]

I know its the title of the thread. It was also clear in this tread that what was really being discussed was preventing children through birth control methods. Even before getting married I was totally against birth control, and now having dealt with infertility I'm even more against it then I was. As I said earlier to me it is a trust issue, as the Bible is clear that God is the one that opens and closes wombs. I Trust God in my infertility, and if He ever does bless us with children I will trust Him with the number. As far as "planning" on having children, I read or heard a pastor say (can't remember who at the moment) that "if you plan to get married, plan to have children." Besides I would think the inverse of my statement, that couple should not prevent children, would be fairly obvious.

Blessed wife, it would be great if you have been blessed by God to have your own.

However, be careful of condemning those who chose when to have children and when not to have children.

It is the personal decision of the home and that home in relationship to God.

No one outside of that context should condemn that family for what they consider best when it comes to family planning.

Family planning is between the family and God.

Take the stupid remarks that are so hurting in the light of ignorant people who just are perceptively challenged. The remarks only hurt if you allow it too. My wife and I endured similar, too.

Be thankful you have the freedom to invest your life into others, that would be denied if you had your own with which to contend.

 

[agedman]

As long as I am being slandered and lied about because I asked a simple question, allow me to share our testimony.

When my wife and I were married 42 years ago we planned on having a family as large as God was willing to provide.

We lost a little boy a year later, and we discovered that my wife was no longer able to conceive.

We went through a year of fertility treatments that caused such terrible mood swings that my wife was beside herself, but because we still planned on having children she endured the terrible side effects of the medications.

After a year the doctor said there was nothing more he could do and we should resign ourselves to being childless.

Instead of giving up we made other plans. We told the Lord we were willing to adopt. Not just adopt any child, but one He sent to us. If He had some children who were "special needs" we would take them. All that He would send.

We did so. And have adult children and adult grandchildren, and even great grandchildren today. And every one were planned. Planned by God Himself.

Do I believe in family planning? You bet I do! God has a plan and we bow the knee to His plans.

Outstanding!

 

[TCassidy]

Outstanding!

You mean I am no longer guilty of "stupid remarks that are so hurting in the light of ignorant people who just are perceptively challenged?"

 

[agedman]

You mean I am no longer guilty of "stupid remarks that are so hurting in the light of ignorant people who just are perceptively challenged?"

Nah,

It bothers me that blessed wife has posted how some really hurtful remarks made to her by unknowing folks have effected her.

You and I have both no doubt been the brunt of such from reading your story.

God plans for the family. The family must trust in His care that He knows what He is doing.

 

[TCassidy]

You and I have both no doubt been the brunt of such from reading your story.

Oh yes. Several times. "They are not really your kids." "You are not their real parents." Mother's Day was one of the worst.

 

[just-want-peace]

This thread is an outstanding example of some folks that "seemingly" insist that their personal relation with God is the same that yours should be. No doctrine involved, just a different relation w/God that is 180 out of sync.

Kinda hard also when nuances of speech, facial expression, tone of voice, are not available for added understanding & clarity.

Let's remember that we are all (?) HIS, and just like brothers & sisters we are gonna have spats, but HOPEFULLY, we still love each other.

 

[blessedwife318]

Here is what I find Ironic about this whole topic: As an infertile women I'm told to trust God for His plan, that if He plans for me to have children it will happen, He only has good for me etc. With rare exception I don't see the inverse with those that think they should not have any more children. I have said multiple times this entire issue on both sides comes down to Trusting God. I firmly believe that God is the one who opens and close a wombs, so if a family feels that they can't have anymore children, they should Trust God with that, not take matters into their own hands, just as I'm Trusting God in my childless state. After going through all the test my wonderful husband and I made the decision to forgo any treatment as they would all be shots in the dark. We are leaving it all in God's hands. When someone is deep into the realm of trying for a baby , you come face to face with a lot of issues to think through, including what to do with multiples as those are a distinct possibility, and depending on the course of action there could be 10 to 14 babies concieved. So some might think I can make my clear statement of Couples should not be preventing Children from a place of safety as it does not seem that I can have children, but the reality is that statement is born out of thinking and praying through all the moral and ethical questions surrounding reproductive technology.


So I will state clearly that I think having and not having children is a Trust issue with God. Do I Trust Him to give me Children if that is His will and do I Trust Him to prevent Children for X reason.



Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[HankD]

So, TCassidy, are you going to expand your targeting to Steven since he agrees with blessedwife or are you going to continue to target a single person like so many bullies I have seen in my life? Does anyone think I am off base in calling TCassidy a bully? If you do, feel free to reply to this post with your reason for disagreeing. I realize that calling TCassidy a bully is off topic so maybe I should start a new thread about it. This post will at the very least get me a warning and will probably get me banned but, TCassidy is abusing his power as an administrator and someone has to say something. So TCassidy, what are you going to do? Are you going to ban me and in so doing prove someone you you hold in contempt to be right?

Tendor I believe you have misjudged Dr Cassidy. He is an assertive but not an abusive person. He is a person from my generation and people were indeed more forceful and assertive "in the day".

I'd say give him a little bit of wriggle room.

HankD

 

[robycop3]

Huh? Try 8. Isaac, Ishmael, Jokshan, Zimran, Midian, Ishbak, Shuah, Medan.

Yeah, he had six by Keturah after Sarah died.

 

[robycop3]

I think it's not against God's will at all if a couple decides not to have children, or more children:

1.) if they find out one or both of them have a gene which is almost certain to cause any child they may have to be bown with a serious disorder.

2.) Clearly can't financially afford it.

3.) Don't have enough "attention" to go around.

Then, there are certain cults, sects, and denoms that encourage their members to have as many kids as possibly, mainly hoping that these kids will be raised to become members of that org. They cite the "Be fruitful" verses as their source for their request, committing the same goof as many other purveyors of false doctrines do - yanking verses outta context.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

I suppose my wife and I are doing this by birth control. It ain't sin.

As a husband you are commanded to provide for your wife and kids. Having more kids than you can afford causes you not to provide for them and therefore you ain't doing God's will. It's that simple. We can't afford a new piece of furniture, we don't buy one. We can't afford a new rifle/handgun/shotgun, we don't get it. We can't afford kids, so we don't have 'em yet.

To believe otherwise is to believe that God wants us to have children we can't afford, and to believe that ain't nothing more than being educated well beyond thy means.

 

[Reynolds]

I suppose my wife and I are doing this by birth control. It ain't sin.

As a husband you are commanded to provide for your wife and kids. Having more kids than you can afford causes you not to provide for them and therefore you ain't doing God's will. It's that simple. We can't afford a new piece of furniture, we don't buy one. We can't afford a new rifle/handgun/shotgun, we don't get it. We can't afford kids, so we don't have 'em yet.

To believe otherwise is to believe that God wants us to have children we can't afford, and to believe that ain't nothing more than being educated well beyond thy means.

Isn't that the way most Christians deal with all medical issues? Let the doctor fix what he can and only trust God for what the doctor can't fix.

 

[TCassidy]

Isn't that the way most Christians deal with all medical issues? Let the doctor fix what he can and only trust God for what the doctor can't fix.

Does God use modern medicine and doctors to heal the sick? To deny the power of modern medicine is to deny the power of God in nature, where the medicines come from, is it not?

 

[Reynolds]

Does God use modern medicine and doctors to heal the sick? To deny the power of modern medicine is to deny the power of God in nature, where the medicines come from, is it not?

I don't disagree with you at all. It just seems that in general, most Christians only actively attempt to involve God when the Doctors can't help.