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Featured Faulty Theology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Mar 6, 2020.

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  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    How about neither? A&E were unique, a special case.

    I'm not sure, but I lean toward alive.

    Yes, I think it's a possibility that if Adam had never eaten of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and had access to eat the fruit of the tree of life, he could have been immortal. Gen. 3:22.
     
    #101 InTheLight, Mar 6, 2020
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My theology is Baptist (I do not reject any of the baptist distinctive) and there are many baptists who do hold my view.

    Are you aware that within orthodox Christianity yours is a minority position?

    Does that surprise you?
     
    #102 JonC, Mar 6, 2020
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. Out of curiosity, what do you believe is the Tree of Life?
     
    #103 JonC, Mar 6, 2020
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @Yeshua1 ,

    What I am saying is that we have to think things through but know where Scripture ends and our understanding begins. We think things through and do the best we can, and perhaps we are making good decisions but later down the road God opens our eyes to something that changes our view.

    As an illustration:

    I am going fishing this weekend. I planed it for awhile. I bought a new surf rod. I looked for a long time and read reviews, and I chose just the one I wanted. I set the thing up very carefully, had it pre-rigged. I took it apart and put a band around the thing so it was read to go this afternoon.

    Guess what? It will not fit in my car. So I am taking my two other rods.

    We have to look at learning as a process.
     
    #104 JonC, Mar 6, 2020
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, as majority position would be infant baptism, but I also reject that notion!
     
    #105 Yeshua1, Mar 6, 2020
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  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I've never really studied it. I think it's a literal tree (or specie of tree) that we will eat fruit from on New Earth (Rev. 22). While we will literally eat the fruit of this tree, the actual eating of it could be symbolic as well. It could be a symbol of the Savior.
     
    #106 InTheLight, Mar 6, 2020
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the difference though JonC is that you always assume that your position is the right one to take, and that those against yours views are wrong, adding to scripture etc!
     
    #107 Yeshua1, Mar 6, 2020
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I hope we all assume that our position is the right one to take and that those against our views are wrong.

    Where I see you adding to Scripture is when you say things but cannot provide any passages saying what you say (like that Adam died spiritually).
     
    #108 JonC, Mar 6, 2020
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    YThere is no Adam died past tense. You have not established that Adam died spiritually the day he sinned. The verse you presented to prove it does not say Adam died. It says "dying and die" neither of which confirms that he died spiritually.
    MB
     
    #109 MB, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Adam was dead in his sins. Do you agree with this? What was he before sin?
     
    #110 Reformed1689, Mar 6, 2020
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You did say it and you have now restated it. Adam was not "made" spiritually dead. Your phraseology is incorrect.
     
    #111 AustinC, Mar 6, 2020
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The opposite is true. You are always poting scriptures that have nothing to do with the subject. Yet you claim they prove your points. I have yet to see you post anything of any substance.
    MB
     
    #112 MB, Mar 6, 2020
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Adam was in a relationship with God, lost that when he sinned, had no need to get saved until he sinned, and then needed a savior, correct?
     
    #113 Yeshua1, Mar 6, 2020
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul held that We ALL spiritually died in Adam, right?
     
    #114 Yeshua1, Mar 6, 2020
  15. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    This is the second time the point at which I get lost.
    I still don't know what you mean by that.
    I'm not being capricious or anything. I sincerely am not sure.
    Left as it is, we all agree with you said.
    Physical death was certain for Adam once he ate of the tree.
    Otherwise he would have live physically for ever.
     
    #115 George Antonios, Mar 6, 2020
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, but close. This is kinda what I was talking about. You say "Paul held that we all spiritually died in Adam" but there are no passages that actually say this. What you can find is that Paul taught that through Adam's sin death entered the world and spread to all men because all have sinned.

    Do you see what I mean? Scripture says ABC and then you say "Scripture says DEF" which is not exactly true.
     
    #116 JonC, Mar 6, 2020
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Well dead in sin (which was caused by Adam) is not a physical death.
     
    #117 Reformed1689, Mar 6, 2020
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We were spiritually dead before we ever chose to sin, as we are physically born in Adam!
     
    #118 Yeshua1, Mar 6, 2020
  19. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    I guess you can use "degrees" - yes.

    For example, some people, according to the book of Revelation, will need the tree of life to be healed and live on for ever (Rev.22:2, 14).
    But that doesn't hold true neither for you nor me, since Christ himself, not the tree, is our life (Col.3:3-4).
     
    #119 George Antonios, Mar 6, 2020
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What I mean is that God told Adam that on the day he ate of the fruit he would surely die (not that he would die on that day).

    Yes, physical death was certain for Adam once he ate of the tree.

    BUT we cannot say "otherwise he would have lived physically forever" based on that information because that is denying the antecedent fallacy (the error of inverse). On the surface it seems to make sense, but the conclusion is in fact a logical error. We do not know what may have been on the other side of that "if".

    We do know if Adam, after eating of the fruit, ate of the "Tree of Life" then he would have lived forever. I am not sure if we know for certain what that means, but we don't have to (it is still a hypothetical).
     
    #120 JonC, Mar 6, 2020
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