Fermented and Unfermented Wine

[steaver]

Some have erroniously believed that there is no such thing as unfermented wine. They would believe that the peoples of the ancient middle east never drank any fresh wine before it ever had a chance to ferment.

Here is a good site with hard facts concerning the preservation of fresh wine and even fermented wine. Even fermented wine must be preserved. Both are known to have been preserved, even in ancient times.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html

A Biblical Allusion. Isaiah 25:6 may contain an allusion to the Biblical custom of filtering the must. The text reads: "On this mountain the Lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow of wine on the lees well refined." The word "wine" present in the two phrases, "wine on the lees" and "wine on the lees well refined" (RSV), is not found in the Hebrew text. Instead, the Hebrew term used is shemarim, which means "preserves," a term which can refer to vintage-produce. Thus, a more accurate translation would be "a feast of vintage-produce" and "a feast of vintage-produce well cleansed." The Vulgate (Latin) translation respects this meaning: "a feast of vintage-produce (convivium vindemiae), a feast of vintage-produce well-cleansed (vindemiae defaecatae)."
In this verse God compares the blessings of the Gospel feast to His providing of two festal luxuries: fat things—rich, marrowy meats—and confections such as jellies and syrups. The former would be served in the most savory way and the latter in their purest state. The "vintage-produce well cleansed" could refer to the filtered grape juice, which on account of its purity and sweetness was regarded, as we have seen, as most pleasant to drink. This harmless nutritious drink fits the emblem of the blessings of salvation which here God promises to all the redeemed

 

[Fred's Wife]

That's a great site Steaver...I've been there many times. Thanks for sharing!

 

[annsni]

Of course there is unfermented wine - that is freshly squeezed juice and no one here denies that it exists.

However, grapes have yeast on them and the yeast helps to produce the wine. The "lees" are the dead yeast after fermentation has occurred. If you ever look at red wine, you will see a sediment at the bottom of the bottle and that is the dead yeast. So juice has live yeast, wine has dead yeast. Which do you think would be appropriate at the Passover supper?

 

[webdog]

Some have erroniously believed that there is no such thing as unfermented wine. They would believe that the peoples of the ancient middle east never drank any fresh wine before it ever had a chance to ferment.

Here is a good site with hard facts concerning the preservation of fresh wine and even fermented wine. Even fermented wine must be preserved. Both are known to have been preserved, even in ancient times.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html

Wow...what some willl come up with to explain away the plain meaning of Scripture! Wine on the lees is alcoholic, not some dessert!

 

[Jerome]

Annsni, um. . .doesn't leavened bread have dead yeast too?

Is leavened bread appropriate?

 

[steaver]

Of course there is unfermented wine - that is freshly squeezed juice and no one here denies that it exists.

You must have missed Moriah's post demanding that all wine is fermented.

 

[steaver]

Wow...what some willl come up with to explain away the plain meaning of Scripture! Wine on the lees is alcoholic, not some dessert!

Read through the site. They make some very compelling arguments.

 

[steaver]

Click on "Jesus and Wine". Very informative!

 

[webdog]

Annsni, um. . .doesn't leavened bread have dead yeast too?

Is leavened bread appropriate?

Yes...where did she imply it wasn't?

 

[Moriah]

You must have missed Moriah's post demanding that all wine is fermented.

All wine is fermented. If grape juice is not fermented, it is still grape juice! Wine is a fermented drink.

 

[Jerome]

Of course there is unfermented wine

All wine is fermented.

Huh?:null::null:

 

[Moriah]

Huh?:null::null:

All wine is fermented. If a grape juice is not fermented, it is still grape juice. Even steaver’s link cannot boldly claim different. Steaver’s link cannot claim grape juice is wine, but they have no problem twisting and denying God’s word.

 

[annsni]

Annsni, um. . .doesn't leavened bread have dead yeast too?

Is leavened bread appropriate?

Yes it does and there is no way to remove it but with wine, you let the yeast settle to the bottom and don't serve the last of the wine. You leave the lees in the bottle or you filter them out.

 

[annsni]

Huh?:null::null:

Unfermented wine is called juice.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Unfermented wine is called juice.

In Bible times it was called wine

 

[webdog]

In Bible times it was called wine

No, Steadfast Fred calls wine juice. The Bible calls wine wine.

 

[Moriah]

In Bible times it was called wine

The Bible never calls wine “unfermented wine,” or “non-alcoholic wine.”

 

[Moriah]

No, Steadfast Fred calls wine juice.

Lol…it sounds so funny.

With Steadfast Fred’s reasoning, it would make sense to say people get drunk on juice, and parents are to give their babies wine.

 

[annsni]

In Bible times it was called wine

Actually, can you show me the verses that CLEARLY uses the word for "wine" as signifying unfermented beverage in both the Old and New Testaments? I'm not talking about "if it's good, it's juice - if it's bad, it's wine" kind of eisegesis either.

 

[annsni]

Additionally, we forget that "wine" isn't the only alcoholic beverage in the Word of God but there is also "strong drink" - shekar. There is no way to interpret that as anything but alcoholic yet God says to purchase it if one desired in Deuteronomy 14.