Fermented and Unfermented Wine

[DHK]

Lol…it sounds so funny.

With Steadfast Fred’s reasoning, it would make sense to say people get drunk on juice, and parents are to give their babies wine.

Are you a parent?
Do you give your babies wine?
Your children wine? Or did you raise them on rum and whiskey instead?

 

[Moriah]

Are you a parent?
Do you give your babies wine?
Your children wine? Or did you raise them on rum and whiskey instead?

You call wine grape juice do you not? You say the Bible does. Since rum is made from molasses, should we call molasses cookies rum cookies? Since whiskey is made from wheat, corn, or barely, would it be right to call our bread ‘whiskey dough’?

 

[DHK]

You call wine grape juice do you not? You say the Bible does. Since rum is made from molasses, should we call molasses cookies rum cookies? Since whiskey is made from wheat, corn, or barely, would it be right to call our bread ‘whiskey dough’?

My wife has made both--cookies from molasses and rum cookies. (rum flavoring).

You misrepresent me.
Neither Lot nor Noah can get drunk on grape juice. The context must determine the meaning of the word. Please remember that.

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]From the above verse we note:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Leaven symbolizes false doctrine. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Leaven symbolizes hypocrisy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Leaven symbolizes malice and wickedness. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Concerning the Passover:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Exodus 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--Absolutely no leaven was allowed. Unleavened bread represented sincerity and truth; leaven represented corruption, malice, hypocrisy, false doctrine. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the NT the Passover was replaced by the Lord’s Supper. The Lord’s Supper was to be in remembrance of his death; the blood that was shed, the body that was sacrificed. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No unleavened bread was to be used because his body saw no corruption. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Likewise no “unleavened” wine or fermented wine would be used for it would symbolize corrupted blood. But his blood was not tainted with a sin nature. It was divine and pure. Leaven symbolized malice, false doctrine, and hypocrisy. Certainly this symbolism would not be made in reference to the blood of Christ. It would be blasphemous to do such. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The process of fermentation is described here. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--Don’t even look upon fermented wine, much less drink it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--when it turns its color, that is when it has begun the fermentation process.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--when it moves itself aright, that is when the yeast has begun and the fermentation has begun.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Proverbs 23:32-33 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--The result is given of drinking fermented wine. [/FONT]

 

[annsni]

Are you a parent?
Do you give your babies wine?
Your children wine? Or did you raise them on rum and whiskey instead?

My first two babies had whisky thanks to my Irish grandmother and mother. What better teething medicine is there?

 

[Walter]

All wine is fermented. If grape juice is not fermented, it is still grape juice! Wine is a fermented drink.

Absolutely! A centuries long practice of using alcoholic wine in communion is overturned by a prohibitionist and profiteer, John B. Welch. And now people actually try to convince us that Jesus used grape juice when instituting the Lord's Supper.

 

[annsni]

My wife has made both--cookies from molasses and rum cookies. (rum flavoring).

Rum flavoring contains alcohol.

 

[Moriah]

My wife has made both--cookies from molasses and rum cookies. (rum flavoring).

You misrepresent me.
Neither Lot nor Noah can get drunk on grape juice. The context must determine the meaning of the word. Please remember that.

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]From the above verse we note:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Leaven symbolizes false doctrine. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Leaven symbolizes hypocrisy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Leaven symbolizes malice and wickedness. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Concerning the Passover:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Exodus 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--Absolutely no leaven was allowed. Unleavened bread represented sincerity and truth; leaven represented corruption, malice, hypocrisy, false doctrine. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the NT the Passover was replaced by the Lord’s Supper. The Lord’s Supper was to be in remembrance of his death; the blood that was shed, the body that was sacrificed. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No unleavened bread was to be used because his body saw no corruption. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Likewise no “unleavened” wine or fermented wine would be used for it would symbolize corrupted blood. But his blood was not tainted with a sin nature. It was divine and pure. Leaven symbolized malice, false doctrine, and hypocrisy. Certainly this symbolism would not be made in reference to the blood of Christ. It would be blasphemous to do such. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The process of fermentation is described here. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--Don’t even look upon fermented wine, much less drink it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--when it turns its color, that is when it has begun the fermentation process.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--when it moves itself aright, that is when the yeast has begun and the fermentation has begun.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Proverbs 23:32-33 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--The result is given of drinking fermented wine. [/FONT]

You gave scripture about unleavened bread, but none about unleavened wine. Why do you just add things to God’s word that are not there?

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/pass...-Passover-when-it-is-fermented-with-yeast.htm

Of the hundreds of species of yeast, the Passover prohibition only applies to yeast which is a product of one of the following five grains: wheat, barley, oat, spelt, or rye. Yeast which is the product of grapes, or its sugars, is not considered chametz (leavened food).

 

[Moriah]

Absolutely! A centuries long practice of using alcoholic wine in communion is overturned by a prohibitionist and profiteer, John B. Welch. And now people actually try to convince us that Jesus used grape juice when instituting the Lord's Supper.

That is interesting info about Mr. Welch.

 

[DHK]

You gave scripture about unleavened bread, but none about unleavened wine. Why do you just add things to God’s word that are not there?

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/pass...-Passover-when-it-is-fermented-with-yeast.htm

Of the hundreds of species of yeast, the Passover prohibition only applies to yeast which is a product of one of the following five grains: wheat, barley, oat, spelt, or rye. Yeast which is the product of grapes, or its sugars, is not considered chametz (leavened food).

The passover was kept without leaven of any kind. Yeast is leaven.
Leavened drink is just as bad as leavened bread. They both symbolize the same thing: sin and corruption and wickedness. And you think that is a good representation for the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ! Unbelievable!!

 

[annsni]

The passover was kept without leaven of any kind. Yeast is leaven.
Leavened drink is just as bad as leavened bread. They both symbolize the same thing: sin and corruption and wickedness. And you think that is a good representation for the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ! Unbelievable!!

Hence why the "wine" could not be juice. The yeast must be killed and removed from the beverage.

 

[DHK]

My first two babies had whisky thanks to my Irish grandmother and mother. What better teething medicine is there?

Raw green onions!

 

[DHK]

Rum flavoring contains alcohol.

Yes, imitation rum flavoring has a very small percentage in one teaspoon in one batch of cookies, and then baked at 350 degrees for about 15 minutes.
Now, after that process how much "rum" or "alcohol" in one cookie do you think there would be? :laugh:

 

[DHK]

Hence why the "wine" could not be juice. The yeast must be killed and removed from the beverage.

Why must you go round and round with this?
Prov.23 explains this well enough.
It had not gone through the fermentation process, and therefore for all intents and purposes was without yeast. Before it was made into wine more yeast had to be added. Otherwise the chances were that it would just spoil.

 

[webdog]

Why must you go round and round with this?
Prov.23 explains this well enough.
It had not gone through the fermentation process, and therefore for all intents and purposes was without yeast. Before it was made into wine more yeast had to be added. Otherwise the chances were that it would just spoil.

You don't know the first thing about oenology :BangHead:

 

[DHK]

You gave scripture about unleavened bread, but none about unleavened wine. Why do you just add things to God’s word that are not there?

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/pass...-Passover-when-it-is-fermented-with-yeast.htm

Of the hundreds of species of yeast, the Passover prohibition only applies to yeast which is a product of one of the following five grains: wheat, barley, oat, spelt, or rye. Yeast which is the product of grapes, or its sugars, is not considered chametz (leavened food).

No I didn't.
I gave Scripture about leaven.
Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. "Leaven, no matter what its source, is symbolic of false doctrine, hypocrisy, malice and wickedness. I did not confine it to bread.

 

[DHK]

You don't know the first thing about oenology :BangHead:

You don't know much about the wines of Israel and no doubt didn't bother to read my post here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1849682&postcount=226

 

[Steadfast Fred]

DHK,

Here is an interesting article from gemsinisrael.com

A couple paragraphs from the site:

The word yayin was used to indicate fermented or unfermented wine. According to Encyclopaedia Judaica (1971), the word is described as follows; "The newly pressed wine prior to fermentation was known as yayin mi-gat (‘wine from the vat;’ Sanh 70a), yayin yashan(‘old wine’) was wine from the previous year, and that from earlier vintages, yashan noshan (‘old, very old’)." The noun yayin is used to describe wine in the Old Testament, 141 times.

The Talmud mentions more than a dozen types of wine. In the Jewish tradition, wine is used in a variety of rituals, during Friday evening service, in wedding ceremonies, on Holy Days, and especially during Passover, when Seder participants drink four cups of wine. Additionally, on Purim it is considered to be a mitzvah to become so inebriated, that one cannot distinguish between Haman and Mordechai. It is interesting to note that during the Mishnah era, the price of wine was about half that of olive oil and equivalent to that of meat.

It was considered good works to get inebriated? Even though God's Word condemn drunkenness?

 

[annsni]

Yes, imitation rum flavoring has a very small percentage in one teaspoon in one batch of cookies, and then baked at 350 degrees for about 15 minutes.
Now, after that process how much "rum" or "alcohol" in one cookie do you think there would be? :laugh:

Baking cookies at 350 degrees for 15 minutes would remove very little alcohol. Yes, it would be a small amount over the whole batch but bottom line, the alcohol does not cook off as is often falsely passed on so there is consumption of alcohol when using these flavorings.

 

[annsni]

Why must you go round and round with this?
Prov.23 explains this well enough.
It had not gone through the fermentation process, and therefore for all intents and purposes was without yeast. Before it was made into wine more yeast had to be added. Otherwise the chances were that it would just spoil.

Yet there was yeast. They could not partake of the juice because there was yeast in it.

 

[Moriah]

No I didn't.
I gave Scripture about leaven.
Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. "Leaven, no matter what its source, is symbolic of false doctrine, hypocrisy, malice and wickedness. I did not confine it to bread.

You are wrong, and have no understanding about what was said about the Pharisees and yeast.

You said, “Leaven, no matter what its source is symbolic of false doctrine, hypocrisy, malice and wickedness.”

Are you ready to repent? Read what Jesus said about yeast and the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Matthew 13:33
He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough.”

I want God’s Word, not DHK’s word. You make up things that are not in the Bible, and in so doing, you blasphemy.

Passover is not the feast of unleavened wine; it is the feast of unleavened bread.

There was never a prohibition against wine. The use of wine remains the normal part of Passover celebrations.