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Fermented and Unfermented Wine

D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
webdog said:
I read it. It's wrong, plain and simple. The wines of Israel are no different than the wines anywhere in the world.
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If you are comparing wines of today with wines of the first century then you are very naive. They aren't the same. They didn't have the same high-tech equipment. Their wine wasn't even close. The article uses exact quotes from historical sources. You have used your opinion.
 
A

AF Guy N Paradise

Active Member
Site Supporter
I don't drink and I don't think God would give a thumbs up to drinking...

However, I have come to the conclusion that this issue is secondary and we don't do one iotta of good fighting about it.

People are dying and going to Hell every hour of everyday but we, as Christians sit back and fight amongst each other on this issue as well as many other secondary issues that DO NOT affect salvation.

Just my 2 cents...
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
DHK said:
If you are comparing wines of today with wines of the first century then you are very naive. They aren't the same. They didn't have the same high-tech equipment. Their wine wasn't even close. The article uses exact quotes from historical sources. You have used your opinion.
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There are wineries today that employ the exact same ancient techniques. One such site was just referenced on the other thread where no additional yeast was added.
 
S

Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Sure one can say they are not the same if their is any deviation.

To say that they are the same even though temperature and environment were different would be tantamount to saying a nickel is a quarter even though one is of greater value than the other.
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
But wine isn't wine guys, remember? It doesn't matter how wine is made because it's all non- alcoholic! ;) Why are you arguing about how wine is made? It's juice squeezed from the fruit according to y'all!
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Steadfast Fred said:
Sure one can say they are not the same if their is any deviation.

To say that they are the same even though temperature and environment were different would be tantamount to saying a nickel is a quarter even though one is of greater value than the other.
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My point is you don't KNOW there is any deviation. You are merely assuming there is.
 
A

Agnus_Dei

New Member
webdog said:
There are wineries today that employ the exact same ancient techniques. One such site was just referenced on the other thread where no additional yeast was added.
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Exactly, just look at the moonshiners (I know we’re talking about wine and not liquor) they employ the same simple technique that’s been around for centuries and it’s the same with wine making…the only difference in today’s modern world is that several government agencies have their hands in the business dictating how and by what method the alcohol is the be brewed…
 
D

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AF Guy N Paradise said:
I don't drink and I don't think God would give a thumbs up to drinking...

However, I have come to the conclusion that this issue is secondary and we don't do one iotta of good fighting about it.

People are dying and going to Hell every hour of everyday but we, as Christians sit back and fight amongst each other on this issue as well as many other secondary issues that DO NOT affect salvation.

Just my 2 cents...
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AMEN. And good to see you on the board; it's been a while.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
webdog said:
There are wineries today that employ the exact same ancient techniques. One such site was just referenced on the other thread where no additional yeast was added.
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The Bible mentions liquor and hard drink as well.
Just down the street, a mile or two, is a multi million dollar facility, Molson's Brewery, that puts out tons of beer daily. Please don't tell me they had the comparable in that day and age. The alcoholic beverages of this era are nowhere near what they are in that time. Let me quote again:
After the Children of Israel had left Egypt and approached Canaan, Moses sent twelve spies across the river to explore the Promised Land. When they returned to their encampment to advise Moses, only Joshua and Caleb were in favour of entering the new land. The other spies, however, had not been particularly impressed by what they found, and because they advised against entering the new land, the Israelites began their forty-year trek through Sinai. Fortunately, however, two of the spies had returned with a cluster of grapes and, according to folklore, those grapes yielded enough wine to last the people for their forty years in the wilderness. Nobody today is sure just how that wine tasted. There is a good chance, however, that it was terrible.


Wine has been made in Israel since pre-Biblical times, but, if the truth be known, until recently, there was no reason to be proud of those wines. The wines shipped to ancient Egypt were so bad that they had to be seasoned with honey, pepper and juniper berries to make them palatable, and those sent to Rome and England during the height of ancient Roman civilization were so thick and sweet that no modern connoisseur could possibly approve of them. So bad were most of these wines that it was probably a good thing that the Moslem conquest in AD 636 imposed a 1,200 year halt to the local wine industry.


Even in 1870, when wine production started again, thanks to the aid of Baron Edmond de Rothschild, not all went smoothly, and most of the wine that was produced was red, sweet, unsophisticated and unappealing. In 1875, for example, British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli was given a bottle of kosher red wine from Palestine. After taking a few sips, Disraeli observed that it tasted ``not so much like wine but more like what I expect to receive from my doctor as a remedy for a bad winter cough''. Well into the 1960s, Israel justifiably suffered from a reputation of producing wines too sweet and too coarse to appeal to knowledgeable drinkers.
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http://www.travelnet.co.il/israel/Wine.htm#TITLE20

Yep! Exactly the same quality as today! :sleep:
 
C

Chad Whiteley

Member
Whether or not wine was different, it was still wine.

Jesus drank it. God encourages men to drink it.

Pretty plain to me. Drink it, but don't get drunk. You abuse it, and it is the same sin as gluttony. Food and drink are not a sin, but abusing them is. Funny how a bunch of obese Baptist pastors can stand in their respective pulpits and pick on the drunkards, since both sins are the same accoording to God's holy word...
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Chad Whiteley said:
Funny how a bunch of obese Baptist pastors can stand in their respective pulpits and pick on the drunkards, since both sins are the same accoording to God's holy word...
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Since the obesity rate in America now stands at 35.7% (more than one in three), I doubt it is just Baptist pastors that are facing that problem.
 
M

Moriah

New Member
AF Guy N Paradise said:
I don't drink and I don't think God would give a thumbs up to drinking...

However, I have come to the conclusion that this issue is secondary and we don't do one iotta of good fighting about it.
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It is good to contend for the faith. You came on and gave your beliefs about it, but then you put down replying back and forth.

AF Guy N Paradise said:
People are dying and going to Hell every hour of everyday but we, as Christians sit back and fight amongst each other on this issue as well as many other secondary issues that DO NOT affect salvation.
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All truth is important. It is good to try to be like-minded.
It is good to correct people, just listen to the blasphemy of those who say the Bible does not mean wine that has alcohol in it. They say many horrible things about Jesus, that he would be a sinner if he turned water into real wine, or drank real wine himself.
How you think that is secondary is just not right.
 
M

Moriah

New Member
Chad Whiteley said:
Whether or not wine was different, it was still wine.

Jesus drank it. God encourages men to drink it.

Pretty plain to me. Drink it, but don't get drunk. You abuse it, and it is the same sin as gluttony. Food and drink are not a sin, but abusing them is. Funny how a bunch of obese Baptist pastors can stand in their respective pulpits and pick on the drunkards, since both sins are the same accoording to God's holy word...
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I agree with what you say here.
 
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