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"Finished work on the cross."
- Thread starter Walpole
- Start date
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Scripture is clear the resurrection is part of the work of redemption...
---> "Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification."(Romans 4:25)
---> "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
If Christ had not rose from the dead, you would still be in your sins and your faith would be in vain.
Is it possible that the words, "It is finished" refers to something else? Something that began prior to Good Friday?
None of those verses say that the resurrection is part of the atonement. Second, we have not yet been redeemed but we wait for it. I Peter 1:3-5.
You remind me of a brother in a donkey cart that holds the carrot over the donkey to get the cart to move... Brethren on here have told you their thoughts on the matter on how they understand the scripture and I am sure they are satisfied with their understanding, I know I am... You newbies get me thinking you know something we don't, I've been on this board a long time and so have a lot of other brethren... You have some special revelation from God we have not heard?... I doubt if you have some epiphany that we would go WOW... I never thought of that?... IT IS FINISHED!... Brother Glen
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
First, I'm not sure how much more explicit the Scriptures can be:
---> "Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification."(Romans 4:25)
---> "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
Ergo no resurrection = you are still in your sins (hence no atonement)
Second, man has been redeemed (Gal 3:13) and 1 Peter 1:3-5 only supports my contention that this notion of the "finished work of Christ on the cross" does not mean what you say it means because St. Peter ties the resurrection to the atonement.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)
Walpole
Well-Known Member
You remind me of a brother in a donkey cart that holds the carrot over the donkey to get the cart to move... Brethren on here have told you their thoughts on the matter on how they understand the scripture and I am sure they are satisfied with their understanding, I know I am... You newbies get me thinking you know something we don't, I've been on this board a long time and so have a lot of other brethren... You have some special revelation from God we have not heard?... I doubt if you have some epiphany that we would go WOW... I never thought of that?... IT IS FINISHED!... Brother Glen
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Am I not allowed to ask the brethren to clarify their thoughts in light of the fact that Christ had not yet died nor rose from the dead when he uttered those words, "It is finished"?
---> "The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." (Luke 24:7)
The work was not finished at Calvary, for He had not yet died when He said those words, nor had He rose from the dead.
Again, I am simply asking is it possible that those words refer to something else? Yes, something that has been revealed by God that perhaps you simply have not thought about, learned or considered. Or do you not think "newbies" have anything to offer?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I think that the previous posters covered it fairly well.
When God ( in this case His Son, who is God ), declares something, it gets done.
There is nothing to stand in the way of God ( Daniel 4:35 ), nor His power to achieve that which is His will...none can "stay" ( stop ) His hand.
Example:
" Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." ( Luke 22:20 )
"Is shed", not "will be shed".
During the "last supper" with the eleven ( Judas had left by that time ), He made this statement, foretelling the future.
On the cross, when He said, "It is finished" just before He died, He declared everything finished, even the resurrection...though it had yet to happen.
Prophecy always comes true.
The atonement, His shedding of blood for His people ( Matthew 1:21, John 10:11 ) was finished.
His work in obeying the Law perfectly, ushering in a new covenant ( Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 8:7-13 ), was finished.
The veil of the Temple at the door of the Holy of Holies ( Hebrews 9:3 ), was rent ( torn ) in two the minute He died ( Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45 ), signifying the end of the first covenant... that He had fulfilled in every detail.
It was all considered finished as He hung on the cross.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree.
We, as believers, wait for the redemption of the purchased possession... our bodies ( Romans 8:23 ), and are given the spirit, which is the "earnest" ( downpayment ) of the purchased ( past tense ) possession ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ), as proof of that redemption that was already accomplished for us at the cross:
" forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" ( 1 Peter 1:18-19 ).
" Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:" ( Galatians 3:13 ).
"giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 in whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:" ( Colossians 1:12-14 ).
" And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:" ( Colossians 1:21-22 ).
" O give thanks unto the Lord, for [he is] good: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.
2 Let the redeemed of the Lord say [so], whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;
3 and gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south." ( Psalms 107:1-3 )
The above is all in the past tense.
At the cross, the believer was pronounced "reconciled".
It's all a "done deal" to the Lord, even though some of it has not happened yet, in "real time" for the believer.
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
Walpole
Well-Known Member
I think that the previous posters covered it fairly well.
When God ( in this case His Son, who is God ), declares something, it gets done.
There is nothing to stand in the way of God ( Daniel 4:35 ), nor His power to achieve that which is His will...none can "stay" ( stop ) His hand.
Example:
" Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." ( Luke 22:20 )
"Is shed", not "will be shed".
During the "last supper" with the eleven ( Judas had left by that time ), He made this statement, foretelling the future.
On the cross, when He said, "It is finished" just before He died, He declared everything finished, even the resurrection...though it had yet to happen.
Prophecy always comes true.
The atonement, His shedding of blood for His people ( Matthew 1:21, John 10:11 ) was finished.
His work in obeying the Law perfectly, ushering in a new covenant ( Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 8:7-13 ), was finished.
The veil of the Temple at the door of the Holy of Holies ( Hebrews 9:3 ), was rent ( torn ) in two the minute He died ( Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45 ), signifying the end of the first covenant... that He had fulfilled in every detail.
It was all considered finished as He hung on the cross.
Great post! Your quotation of Luke 22:20 is the answer to the question: What was finished?
What happened and was finished on Good Friday actually began the night before in the Upper Room on Holy Thursday. Without the context of Holy Thursday, what happened on Good Friday was nothing more than a brutal Roman execution. The passion of Christ actually began at the Last Supper, where the new covenant was established and instituted...
"And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me' And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.'" (Luke 22:19-20)
The Last Supper is what is consummated / completed / finished when Jesus is on the cross. The Last Supper and Calvary are one single event as Christ is both the high priest and the victim (Hebrews 9:11-12).
It is only when you understand what took place on Holy Thursday do the words, "It is finished" find their meaning. It is where the new Moses, Jesus Christ, fulfills the type / figure of the old covenant of Moses in Exodus with the new reality of the Eucharistic sacrifice.
The following clip from The Passion of the Christ beautifully captures and juxtaposes the what happened in the Upper Room with its completion on Calvary:
About the 1:30 mark is where it starts --->
it is not raised as in resurrection but raised on the cross, like the snake Moses raised foe the Israelite to be saved from the snake bite, The judgement of sin.
Nothing in this post is true.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
So all these accounts of Jesus being raised from the dead are not referring to His physical resurrection, but instead harken back to three days prior on Calvary?
---> Bible, King James Version
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Feel free to offer a refutation and formulate an objection.
Feel free to actually find out what those passages mean and lead to.You post a series of disconnected verses and make a claim without any solid description or support on why they support your claim. Let's be clear, posting verses and making a claim about them is not evidence, or clear support for your position. You did nothing to connect the last supper to "it is finished". Let me ask you, do you know the exact transliteration of that phrase is, what it meant and how it was commonly used?
Further, the last supper was something to remember what Christ did it is not the act itself. That is why Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me." The bread and the wine are analogous of his body and blood not literal. The Lord's supper is a testimony to what Christ did, just as Baptism is Romans 6:1-4.
what?
He was raised from the dead to show He was true and God The raised you are referring to is raised on the cross.
or rather the judgment of sin, as He became sin for us
Walpole
Well-Known Member
I'm really confused by your assertion because He wasn't on the cross when He was raised from the dead. He was in a tomb.
---> Bible, King James Version
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Maybe this will help connect the passages for you...
The passion of Christ actually began at the Last Supper, where the new covenant was established and instituted.
Only in the context of what began in the Upper Room the night before does it become clear: It refers to the Eucharistic sacrifice.
"Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, 'Take, eat; this is my body.' And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, 'Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'" (Mt. 26:26-28)
"And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, 'Take; this is my body.' And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. And he said to them, 'This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.'" (Mark 14:22-24)
"And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me' And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.'" (Luke 22:19-20)
Again, it is at this moment when the new Moses, Jesus Christ, fulfills the type / figure of the old covenant of Moses in Exodus with the new reality of the Eucharistic sacrifice...
Exodus 24 (The figure) ---> The hill, the altar, the twelve, the blood, Moses, the covenant, the eating the drinking and communion with God ---> Points to the reality of the new now being fulfilled by Jesus Christ ---> The Upper Room, the altar, the twelve, the blood, the New Moses, the new covenant, the eating and drinking and communion with God.
Or:
Exodus 24 ---> The New Covenant / Testament
The hill ---> The Upper Room
The altar ---> The Table
The twelve pillars ---> The Twelve Apostles
The blood ---> The Blood of Christ
Moses ---> The New Moses, Jesus Christ
The covenant ---> The New Covenant
Eating and drinking and communion with God ---> Eating and drinking and communion with God
This is finished (consummated) on the Cross on Good Friday. The Last Supper is what is consummated / completed / finished when Jesus is on the cross. The Last Supper and Calvary are one single event. Christ is both the high priest and the victim (Hebrews 9:11-12).
Your assertions are demonstrably erroneous for two reasons. First, according to Protestant theology, there is nothing to commemorate at that moment because his sacrificial offering did not occur until the following day. Protestant theology says nothing was offered on Holy Thursday. Hence, you are commemorating that which did not yet occur!
Secondly, and more importantly, if the Eucharist is not the actual body and blood of Christ, it would be the first time in all of salvation history where the figure of something would have surpassed the reality of it, thus rendering the Old Covenant of Exodus 24 exceeding the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE]
We mean that in the death and resurrection of Jesus, God has provided in full all that is required to be saved and in right relationship with God again, as we can add and do nothing else to that work!