"Finished work on the cross."

[Walpole]

We mean that in the death and resurrection of Jesus, God has provided in full all that is required to be saved and in right relationship with God again, as we can add and do nothing else to that work!

Thank you. Why then didn't Christ say, "It is ALMOST finished" since the atonement was not complete because He had yet to die and rise from the dead?

 

[Yeshua1]

Thank you. Why then didn't Christ say, "It is ALMOST finished" since the atonement was not complete because He had yet to die and rise from the dead?

I wrote that in his death and resurrection, all was accomplished needy to save us!

 

[loDebar]

I'm really confused by your assertion because He wasn't on the cross when He was raised from the dead. He was in a tomb.

---> Bible, King James Version

I have not said that., His Resurrection is not part of your salvation

 

[Walpole]

I wrote that in his death and resurrection, all was accomplished needy to save us!

But again, when He said, "It is finished", he had not yet died nor resurrected. So to say that all was accomplished at that moment is not accurate.

 

[Revmitchell]

Maybe this will help connect the passages for you...


The passion of Christ actually began at the Last Supper, where the new covenant was established and instituted.
Only in the context of what began in the Upper Room the night before does it become clear: It refers to the Eucharistic sacrifice.


"Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, 'Take, eat; this is my body.' And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, 'Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'" (Mt. 26:26-28)


"And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, 'Take; this is my body.' And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. And he said to them, 'This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.'" (Mark 14:22-24)


"And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me' And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.'" (Luke 22:19-20)



Again, it is at this moment when the new Moses, Jesus Christ, fulfills the type / figure of the old covenant of Moses in Exodus with the new reality of the Eucharistic sacrifice...



Exodus 24 (The figure) ---> The hill, the altar, the twelve, the blood, Moses, the covenant, the eating the drinking and communion with God ---> Points to the reality of the new now being fulfilled by Jesus Christ ---> The Upper Room, the altar, the twelve, the blood, the New Moses, the new covenant, the eating and drinking and communion with God.

Or:

Exodus 24 ---> The New Covenant / Testament
The hill ---> The Upper Room
The altar ---> The Table
The twelve pillars ---> The Twelve Apostles
The blood ---> The Blood of Christ
Moses ---> The New Moses, Jesus Christ
The covenant ---> The New Covenant
Eating and drinking and communion with God ---> Eating and drinking and communion with God



This is finished (consummated) on the Cross on Good Friday. The Last Supper is what is consummated / completed / finished when Jesus is on the cross. The Last Supper and Calvary are one single event. Christ is both the high priest and the victim (Hebrews 9:11-12).




Your assertions are demonstrably erroneous for two reasons. First, according to Protestant theology, there is nothing to commemorate at that moment because his sacrificial offering did not occur until the following day. Protestant theology says nothing was offered on Holy Thursday. Hence, you are commemorating that which did not yet occur!

Secondly, and more importantly, if the Eucharist is not the actual body and blood of Christ, it would be the first time in all of salvation history where the figure of something would have surpassed the reality of it, thus rendering the Old Covenant of Exodus 24 exceeding the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

Until you can tell me what "tetelestai" means in the greek or transliterated and how was it commonly used in Jesus day then you have no argument. The hill doesn't mean the upper room, the alter does not mean the table etc. it is an absurd attempt to connect things that are not connected in the way you are asserting. So tell me the meaning and the common use of "tetelestai". Then we can talk.

 

[loDebar]

But again, when He said, "It is finished", he had not yet died nor resurrected. So to say that all was accomplished at that moment is not accurate.

He said it just before He died , as the verse shows?

Did you prefer He said t after He died?

 

[JoeT]

Hyssop was a plant used by moses to sprinkle the blood of the paschal Lamb on the posts and lintels, it was also used as a medium to seal the covenant with Israel. It should be a hint given us by St. John as to just what was happening at the crucifixion.

In the sacrifice of the Pascal lamb the blood of the lamb was “sprinkled upon the people”. This blood was a covenant. Hyssop was used as a medium to seal the covenant [bind the deal] with the people with the blood from the sacrifice, to consummate the covenant. Jesus fulfills every tittle, every jot of the Prophetic Law. [Matthew 5:18][ Luke 16:17] requiring sealing the deal; “And he took the blood and sprinkled it upon the people, and he said: This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words." [Exodus 24:8].

Over the cross was the title of Christ, “JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS”, (King of the Jews was the Messias), written in three different languages. A chief priest was presiding over the proceedings. Hyssop was put to the mouth of Christ, it was finished. Let’s look at the image John presents us with; a chief priest was present, there is a Sacrificial Lamb, perfect in every way, like man in all things, except sin, hyssop is present to transfer the covenant to the people of Israel, the a last drink of wine is taken. What was happening at the crucifixion? [Cf. John 19:29]

Why do you suppose hyssop was present in John’s telling of the crucifixion? Why give the bitter fruit of the vine to drink? What in this world was being consummated, “finished", "telelestai"?

JoeT

 

[Walpole]

Hyssop was a plant used by moses to sprinkle the blood of the paschal Lamb on the posts and lintels, it was also used as a medium to seal the covenant with Israel. It should be a hint given us by St. John as to just what was happening at the crucifixion.

In the sacrifice of the Pascal lamb the blood of the lamb was “sprinkled upon the people”. This blood was a covenant. Hyssop was used as a medium to seal the covenant [bind the deal] with the people with the blood from the sacrifice, to consummate the covenant. Jesus fulfills every tittle, every jot of the Prophetic Law. [Matthew 5:18][ Luke 16:17] requiring sealing the deal; “And he took the blood and sprinkled it upon the people, and he said: This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words." [Exodus 24:8].

Over the cross was the title of Christ, “JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS”, (King of the Jews was the Messias), written in three different languages. A chief priest was presiding over the proceedings. Hyssop was put to the mouth of Christ, it was finished. Let’s look at the image John presents us with; a chief priest was present, there is a Sacrificial Lamb, perfect in every way, like man in all things, except sin, hyssop is present to transfer the covenant to the people of Israel, the a last drink of wine is taken. What was happening at the crucifixion? [Cf. John 19:29]

Why do you suppose hyssop was present in John’s telling of the crucifixion? Why give the bitter fruit of the vine to drink? What in this world was being consummated, “finished", "telelestai"?

JoeT

Great post Joe!

It appears the parallels between the institution narratives of the new covenant sacrifice (the Eucharist) to that of the old covenant sacrifice of Exodus 24 are the world's greatest coincidence according to some posters.

 

[JoeT]

Great post Joe!

It appears the parallels between the institution narratives of the new covenant sacrifice (the Eucharist) to that of the old covenant sacrifice of Exodus 24 are the world's greatest coincidence according to some posters.

You and I fulfill, when God fulfills He perfects.

JoeT

 

[Yeshua1]

Great post Joe!

It appears the parallels between the institution narratives of the new covenant sacrifice (the Eucharist) to that of the old covenant sacrifice of Exodus 24 are the world's greatest coincidence according to some posters.

The Eucherist has NOTHING to do with salvation, as that was the work of Jesus on that Cross that secured that for lost sinners!

 

[Walpole]

The Eucherist has NOTHING to do with salvation, as that was the work of Jesus on that Cross that secured that for lost sinners!

The Eucharist has EVERYTHING to do with salvation...

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” - John 6:53-68

 

[Revmitchell]

The Eucharist has EVERYTHING to do with salvation...

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” - John 6:53-68

What does "tetelestai" mean transliterated and how was it commonly used in Jesus day?

 

[JoeT]

The Eucherist has NOTHING to do with salvation, as that was the work of Jesus on that Cross that secured that for lost sinners!

The Eucharist has everything to do with your salvation. Moses said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord hath" and he sprinkled blood on the people, [Exodus 24:8]. Christ perfects (fulfills) the prophetic Law saying "For this is my blood of the new testament" [Matthew 26:28, likewise Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20;Hebrews 12:24; 1 Corinthians 11:25].

Hence, without the Eucharist, you have nothing more than a Roman syle hanging; without the Eucharist, you don't have payment for sin; without the Eucharist, you don't have a covenant; without the Eucharist; without the Eucharist you don't have the incarnation. In short you god becomes a myth.

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

What does "tetelestai" mean transliterated and how was it commonly used in Jesus day?

What does "tetelestai" mean transliterated and how was it commonly used in Jesus day?

.

"Telelestai" means to bring completion or perfection, we use consummated, finished, fulfill. An example is consummation in a marriage - it is not marriage until it is perfected in a certain way within or at a certain time and will remain or continue to be a marriage thereafter.

In case of Christ at the crucifixion, it is consummated, finished fulfilled, with my death, his last words, and it is finished

JoeT

 

[Yeshua1]

The Eucharist has EVERYTHING to do with salvation...

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” - John 6:53-68

Jesus was NOT referring to physical blood and flesh being consumed by us there, but that His death would be the atonging sacrifice for sins! One can take Mass every day, and still go to Hell, as one must receive Jesus as Lord to get to heaven!

 

[Walpole]

Jesus was NOT referring to physical blood and flesh being consumed by us there, but that His death would be the atonging sacrifice for sins! One can take Mass every day, and still go to Hell, as one must receive Jesus as Lord to get to heaven!

Please select the correct answers from Scripture...

1. "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my _______.” (John 6:51)

a. symbol
b. flesh
c. memory



2. "For my ______ is real food, and my _______ is real drink." (John 6:55)

a. word / symbol
b. flesh / blood
c. memory / remembrance



3. "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my ______, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my _______.'" (Luke 22:19-20)

a. word / symbol
b. body / blood
c. memory / remembrance



4. "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the _______ of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the _______ of Christ?" (1 Col 10:16)

a. word / symbol
b. blood / body
c. memory / remembrance



I'll grade your answers tomorrow.

 

[37818]

According to John 19:28 with John 19:30 it can be understood Jesus completed the atonement prior to His physical death. He in His soul having shed His blood for sin, His soul was dead on the cross, Isaiah 53:10-12; Psalms 22:1 & Psalms 22:6, suffering on the cross for the lost, Mark 9:48. And having completed this, His soul alive, He physically died, His soul alive into Sheol/Hades to be raised from the dead, Acts of the Apostles 2;27. Yes, more can be said on this.

 

[Yeshua1]

Please select the correct answers from Scripture...

1. "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my _______.” (John 6:51)

a. symbol
b. flesh
c. memory



2. "For my ______ is real food, and my _______ is real drink." (John 6:55)

a. word / symbol
b. flesh / blood
c. memory / remembrance



3. "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my ______, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my _______.'" (Luke 22:19-20)

a. word / symbol
b. body / blood
c. memory / remembrance



4. "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the _______ of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the _______ of Christ?" (1 Col 10:16)

a. word / symbol
b. blood / body
c. memory / remembrance



I'll grade your answers tomorrow.

The body of Jesus was the one that he died in on the Cross, and His blood was shed there, as per Hebrews, one time only event, NEVER needed to be repeated, as the Mass does daily!

 

[Walpole]

The body of Jesus was the one that he died in on the Cross, and His blood was shed there, as per Hebrews, one time only event, NEVER needed to be repeated, as the Mass does daily!

The book of Hebrews is in essence a homily on the Christian Eucharistic sacrifice, taking the reader from Old Testament sacrifice of the blood of the covenant in Exodus 24 to Christ’'s blood of the New Covenant and our participation in it.

 

[JoeT]

The body of Jesus was the one that he died in on the Cross, and His blood was shed there, as per Hebrews, one time only event, NEVER needed to be repeated, as the Mass does daily!

How many human bodies does Jesus Christ have? Does He put these bodies on like I put on a good suit?

JoeT