except that God did not make a finl judgement upon the jewish peoples/nation in AD 70, as he finished the Old covenant, and firm;y estalblished the New one, and that for right now, both jews/gentiles are saved in the new One, but when jesus returns, he will indead restore Kingdom to national isreal!
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For amillenial brothers....thoughts?
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
DHK
A literal rendering many times for the kingdom reign...is the reign of the heavens.....The heavenly Jerusalem and Zion.....you resist this, so you miss it,and it forces you to go in the wrong direction.
The Jews missed it, they did not realize that the king had come to earth. Unless God had kept a remnant they would be no different than Sodom and Gomorrah.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
The kingdom has come already and is growing.
No...King Jesus has already won the victory at the cross-
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful
This describes the world of the unsaved. Chrisitians have been translated out of this bondage into the Kingdom.
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Satan offered This Kingdom, His Kingdom, to Jesus. He was the only one that could do so. It is his.
satans offer was counterfeit...he is a loser.
Wrong DHK....bad theology.....here is a better idea for you-
Psalm 24
24 The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
As the True Israel, the last Adam a true image bearer...of course he did...
In the new Covenant...Jesus is the true Israel...we are in Him by new Birth. Jew /gentile, one new man in Christ for all time.....
yes,,,the unsaved worldly heathen found outside of unsaved Israelites who had the oracles of God, alienated from the covenants.
Unsaved jews, covenant breaking apostates...
Only as defined above,
This is a lame caricature on your part...Paul being Jewish prayed for those unsaved Jews...you were RC...you might pray in the same way for unsaved RC's. This is not foolish , or mixed up as you say...but quite understandable.
it already came and went...now is Kingdom expansion ,Jesus ruling in the midst of His enemies, the believers overcome the enemies by the blood of the lamb...then the White throne judgment and the eternal state.
A literal rendering many times for the kingdom reign...is the reign of the heavens.....The heavenly Jerusalem and Zion.....you resist this, so you miss it,and it forces you to go in the wrong direction.
.
The Jews missed it, they did not realize that the king had come to earth. Unless God had kept a remnant they would be no different than Sodom and Gomorrah.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
The kingdom has come already and is growing.
No...King Jesus has already won the victory at the cross-
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful
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This describes the world of the unsaved. Chrisitians have been translated out of this bondage into the Kingdom.
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Satan offered This Kingdom, His Kingdom, to Jesus. He was the only one that could do so. It is his.
satans offer was counterfeit...he is a loser.
,
Wrong DHK....bad theology.....here is a better idea for you-
Psalm 24
24 The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
As the True Israel, the last Adam a true image bearer...of course he did...
Correct...the rapture is the last day....it is really fast before you can blink your eye, and it is done.
In the new Covenant...Jesus is the true Israel...we are in Him by new Birth. Jew /gentile, one new man in Christ for all time.....
yes Jesus is the head, believers are the body, the elect sheep, made up of believing jew and gentile, one new man.
yes,,,the unsaved worldly heathen found outside of unsaved Israelites who had the oracles of God, alienated from the covenants.
Unsaved jews, covenant breaking apostates...
.
Only as defined above,
Paul prayed for the apostate nation that some might be part of the remnant...
This is a lame caricature on your part...Paul being Jewish prayed for those unsaved Jews...you were RC...you might pray in the same way for unsaved RC's. This is not foolish , or mixed up as you say...but quite understandable.
it already came and went...now is Kingdom expansion ,Jesus ruling in the midst of His enemies, the believers overcome the enemies by the blood of the lamb...then the White throne judgment and the eternal state.
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Y1
Can you show this scripturally at all?
Do you know of a different Covenant that is going to be established after the new Covenant?
You say it...but where does scripture say such a thing?
Can you show this scripturally at all?
Do you know of a different Covenant that is going to be established after the new Covenant?
You say it...but where does scripture say such a thing?
Y1
Can you show this scripturally at all?
Do you know of a different Covenant that is going to be established after the new Covenant?
You say it...but where does scripture say such a thing?
Isaiah 66 os a passage for the Messianic Age still yet to come!
And why did peter state in Acts 3 that when isreal receives jesus as promised messiah, all earth shall be blessed, as national isreal at that time will say "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!"
Except that Paul stated that God used the disobedience and rebellion of national Isreal in order to offer to gentiles same Messaih, and to be under th!e New covenant, and once the fulness of all gentiles come in, then He goes back to dealing with national isreal
Nothing says this in scripture...it does say this-
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again
He is able to graft them in again....it does NOT say "then he goes back to THEM". He may or may not do so....
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Y1
The passage does not mention a "messianic age"...you insert that idea.
This speaks of new heaven and new earth and all nations, all flesh worshipping.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Where in Acts 3 do you see any of this?
here is what I see-
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
the promises came to Israel first because they alone had the written word of God and the promises. As they rejected Jesus [except for the elect remnant} the message went to the gentiles.....same as here in Acts 13...
41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium.
52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
The passage does not mention a "messianic age"...you insert that idea.
This speaks of new heaven and new earth and all nations, all flesh worshipping.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Where in Acts 3 do you see any of this?
here is what I see-
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
the promises came to Israel first because they alone had the written word of God and the promises. As they rejected Jesus [except for the elect remnant} the message went to the gentiles.....same as here in Acts 13...
41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium.
52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
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When have we see on earth no more wars, weapons, peace, and all people and nations worship only God?
As we have no real binding of satan, still evil and sin in the world, and enemies against God and His people on the march, so restoration of earth needs to have national isreal reconciled back to God at His second Coming!
As we have no real binding of satan, still evil and sin in the world, and enemies against God and His people on the march, so restoration of earth needs to have national isreal reconciled back to God at His second Coming!
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In the church................... satan is really bound...........national Israel was rejected for the true israel.
you did not reply to post 147
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Apostle paul saw isreal and the Church as seperate entities to God, why don't you?
And Satan when bound is not to jut the Church, but cuts him off from influencing anything on this earth, so he cannot be bound right now, see Isis and beheadings!
I don't resist it. You and others avoid context. I have said this many times. One word doesn't mean the same thing in all cases. One of the key elements in finding out the meaning of a word is exegesis. Gordon Fee, in his book on NT Exegesis, opens with this paragraph:
The Jews were looking for a Kingdom on earth. They were not looking for a suffering Messiah, but one who would reign from the literal throne of David, and thus were disappointed. Even the disciples asked him about when he would set up this earthly kingdom in Acts chapter one.
Only when the context identifies a heavenly or spiritual kingdom does it refer to one, such as "heavenly kingdom." Otherwise we cannot make that assumption. We must exegete the passage. We must ask the same questions that Fee refers to.
The Jews did not miss anything. In rejecting Christ as their Messiah, they rejected the Kingdom that he would have offered them.
"He came to his own and his own received him not."
They could not understand the Christ was a suffering Savior. He was not the reigning King. He would come at a later time as King. First he must come as fully man and fully God, but not as King. Kings are not treated as slaves and criminals; Jesus was.
Less than 5% of the world is evangelical Christianity; more than 20% of the world is Islam (just one of many pagan religions), and yet you say the kingdom is growing. It is not.
In fact Jesus himself said: When I come will I find faith on the earth?
The inference was "no." True faith in Christ is on the decline. The "kingdom" you speak of is on the decline. Those that are truly born again are becoming a rare species.
He made that victory accessible to all who would receive it. But receive it they must.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
--The authority belongs to them that believe; to them that are born again.
At the cross we have been redeemed from the bondage of sin. That much is true. It is through the blood of Christ that that is made possible.
However,
This world is held in the darkness of sin and Satan.
Satan is the god of this world; the prince of the power of this air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. This also is still true. It is scripture that I am quoting here. You cannot deny it.
The king, Jesus of Nazareth, and the king only is the only one born of woman who has inherited the kingdom of God. Jesus, the Son of God, whom God, the Father, appointed heir of all things Heb 1:2. No other man born of woman living or dead has inherited the kingdom of God.
What is the true meaning of Hades in the NT, Sheol in the OT.
From the prophecy of David, "Thou will not leave my soul in Sheol/Hades"?
Is it not the realm of the dead. To enter Sheol/Hades would one not have to pass through the gates of Sheol/Hades?
Scenario..
You Larry, curly or MO or whatever your name, are a Christian from the FBC of Jerusalem, in Iraq for your job and ISIS captures you and beheads you. You passed through the gates. You have succumbed to the power of the devil, death, even though the king has had victory over it. However Jesus the Christ, the Son of the living God said, "I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail (vi Fut Act 1 Sg) against it.
When will it be that it can be said of you, Larry, Curly or Mo or whatever your name, that death and Hades have not prevailed against you?
When will L, C or M or whoever inherit the kingdom of God along with their king?
Icon fails to see thae t God can still be sovereign and yet also allow/permit satan to still exercise a degree of domenion on this earth..
IF this has been the Messianic Age we are now in as the OT prophets foretold, then we would really need to question how to understand the bible, as this is surely NOT the state of the earth showed to us when hessiah returns to reign here?
IF this has been the Messianic Age we are now in as the OT prophets foretold, then we would really need to question how to understand the bible, as this is surely NOT the state of the earth showed to us when hessiah returns to reign here?
DHK
The fact that you still believe the earthly Jerusalem and Zion are the holy place says otherwise. Nothing After the Cross in the Nt. suggests this..instead it speaks of the reality of the Heavenly Zion And Jerusalem..
ok...lets take a look
The Jews were disappointed because they were wrong and what they looked for .....was wrong.....They looked for an earthly literal reign on an earthly throne, in earthly Zion and Jerusalem....THEY WERE WRONG....
Strangely enough.....the modern Dispensationalist looks for the same thing the mistaken Jews looked for. They want and look for an earthly King In eartly Jerusalem and Zion....But Jesus corrected the Jews and modern day dispensationalists....
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Yes they did...they did not understand as Jesus had explained to them;
jn16-
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
After the cross understanding was given and welcomed by the Apostles.
He is giving his own presupposition here. In other words....why assume an "earthly Kingdom" is only in view, especially when that commonly held view,,,, WAS WRONG.
it seems he is mistaken here.
The Kingdom was started and welcomed by the elect remnant.
He did come as King...and many rejected Him. He was shamefully treated.
At Pentecost there was a few thousand in one city...today there are millions worldwide....that is significant growth....
it started small...like the mustard seed...but is growing worldwide:thumbs:
This is a gloomy view of the gospel. True faith is growing.The Kingdom grows everyday:thumbs:
I think vs 13 explains it completely-
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The unsaved are blinded by satan.....satan is a loser however.
The fact that you still believe the earthly Jerusalem and Zion are the holy place says otherwise. Nothing After the Cross in the Nt. suggests this..instead it speaks of the reality of the Heavenly Zion And Jerusalem..
ok...lets take a look
.
The Jews were disappointed because they were wrong and what they looked for .....was wrong.....They looked for an earthly literal reign on an earthly throne, in earthly Zion and Jerusalem....THEY WERE WRONG....
Strangely enough.....the modern Dispensationalist looks for the same thing the mistaken Jews looked for. They want and look for an earthly King In eartly Jerusalem and Zion....But Jesus corrected the Jews and modern day dispensationalists....
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Yes they did...they did not understand as Jesus had explained to them;
jn16-
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
After the cross understanding was given and welcomed by the Apostles.
He is giving his own presupposition here. In other words....why assume an "earthly Kingdom" is only in view, especially when that commonly held view,,,, WAS WRONG.
it seems he is mistaken here.
The Kingdom was started and welcomed by the elect remnant.
He did come as King...and many rejected Him. He was shamefully treated.
At Pentecost there was a few thousand in one city...today there are millions worldwide....that is significant growth....
it started small...like the mustard seed...but is growing worldwide:thumbs:
This is a gloomy view of the gospel. True faith is growing.The Kingdom grows everyday:thumbs:
I think vs 13 explains it completely-
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
:thumbs:
The unsaved are blinded by satan.....satan is a loser however.
Y1
Jesus spoke of the location of the Kingdom here. He said;
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Could you explain the bolded portions?
,
Jesus spoke of the location of the Kingdom here. He said;
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Could you explain the bolded portions?
retored????
For there to be a "heavenly Jerusalem" there must be an earthly one. You can't have one without the other. Besides that, when Jesus comes in his glory to set up His Kingdom, He will come to an earthly Jerusalem. Surely you don't deny completely the Second Coming, do you?
And when he comes He will come specifically to the Mount of Olives. He has never done that before.
Note that when he comes all the nations will be gathered to do battle against Israel (much like it is turning out now).
[FONT="]Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.[/FONT]
The Lord doesn't do battle in heaven. The following takes place on earth:
[FONT="]Zechariah 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.[/FONT]
--When Christ comes he will land on the Mount of Olives. That is where his feet will touch. And the mount will be split in two--from the east to the west. It will be with such great force that it will result in a very great valley with half the mountain divided.
We know that has never happened, and it is not an allegory.
Christ is coming, and he is coming to this earth to set up his kingdom.
And so? The Apostles were wrong in the same way. They also looked for a literal earthly kingdom. They asked Christ about it many times, even just before he ascended into heaven:
[FONT="]Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?[/FONT]
--This was the general expectation of the Jews, even Jesus disciples.
No, he didn't. The only correction he gave his disciples is that their main concern should be in evangelism. Christ would come and set up his earthly kingdom. That was a given. They should not be concerned with the timing of the kingdom. But he would come.
[FONT="]Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.[/FONT]
--Don't be concerned with the time. He will come. The dispensation is right. But verse 8 reiterates the Great Commission.
You should be ashamed. :laugh:
The question about the kingdom came 40 days after his resurrection, on the day of his ascension, posed in Acts chapter one. And you are taking scripture from John 16:12,13 to answer it??
The "bear them now," was quite some time ago, long before the death, burial and resurrection. This is way out of context. Many things had already been learned by the disciples by Acts one.
Furthermore, you can't possibly know what Jesus was talking about. You aren't a mind-reader. What are the things "that they couldn't bear"? It is doubtful that he was speaking of a kngdom, but rather about his impending death, and of his sufferings, and what would become of them.
You make too many assumptions. Still in Acts one, the disciples asked about an earthly kingdom, and Jesus never denied it. Jesus and all the prophets spoke repeatedly of an earthly kingdom, not a heavenly one. Read the book of Isaiah.
What do you think the Lord's Prayer means:
"Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done,on earth as it is in heaven.
Fee simply stated some basic principles of exegesis:
Who is the author? Who is the author writing to?
Why is he writing? How are the recipients understanding what he is writing? That is the main question to be answered. He is not wrong.
It was not welcomed at all. It was postponed. Jesus said not to be concerned with it.
[FONT="]Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.[/FONT]
He came as a suffering Savior, one who died, was buried and rose again.
He did not come as a King. Kings are not born in mangers.
Christianity is on the decline. The percentage of Christians in this world are getting fewer and fewer every year. That is not an expanding kingdom. Do not be deceived.
Though there is gospel outreach, there are far more unsaved then saved, and the percentage of saved is much less now then at the time of Christ.
It is realistic and Biblical.
Jesus said: "Will I find faith on the earth, when I come."
Things don't get better. The Bible doesn't teach that. "This know also, periloous times shall come..." Things will continue to get worse and worse.
The whole world lies in the darkness of sin. Many believers are also deceived by Satan. He is the god of this world. Peter tells us that he roams about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. If Peter warns that he has the ability to devour Christians, then he is a very powerful being. Don't underestimate the devil.
Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world."
The Bible also says that "Satan is the god of this world."
The world is the kingdom of Satan. Jesus also said to the Pharisees, concerning one of their false gods, Beelzebub, "A kingdoom divided agaisnt itself cannot stand." He was speaking of Satan's kingdom and acknowleddged that it belonged to Satan.
Jesus will come and set up his kingdom on earth in the future.
It is sad that you should deny both the Second Coming and His Millennial Reign.
If he is powerful, he has not been destoyed. We have been given the power to overcome Satan through the blood of Christ. But Satan is still able to defeat us if we are not careful in our own lives. There are many admonitions in the Bible to flee the devil, Resist Satan, etc.
That is one place where he was using figurative language.
He is the servant of the Lord, however.
You are wrong. The word "rapture" does occur.
[FONT="]1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.[/FONT]
The word "caught up" in Latin is "rapio" from which the word "rapture" comes from. If you look in your friendly Jerome's Latin Vulgate, you no doubt will find the word.
The "last days" in all scriptures mentioned are written for the benefit of Christians for whom the NT was written. They refer to the time period from Pentecost onward, including our present era.
I am not the one that denies the Second Coming of our Lord; one of the most fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith. It is not my ideas that are unstable.
The Kingdom of god was in their midst, as in the person of Christ, and all who believe in Him become part of that Kingdom, but His first advent was to come as the suffering servant of the lord, but second coming will be as King, and to rule the nations under his messianic reign, with rod of iron...
And THAT is the time israel will ahve their Kingdom restored, as they will have the messiah king over them!
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5
This one is he who did come through water and blood -- Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth, 1 John 5:7 YLT
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; (flesh and blood, by water?) and afterward (afterward what) that which is spiritual.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matt 25:34
DHK
Gal4 explains which one is in control and active
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Jesus has already come the first time to set up His Kingdom.
He came to earthly Jerusalem [mt21....the king came to zion} they rejected Him, he rejected them, and ascended into the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem to reign.
Well far from being ashamed....this has turned into another opportunity to point out how you miss verse after verse....this is embarrassing for you DHK...let me show you exactly why
yes...the question is about the Kingdom in which they like you lacked understanding about.
In jn 16[before the cross] Jesus explained that they could not bear all truth now.....that is ...when he the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth......
newsflash...This was speaking of the day of Pentecost....[after the 40 days and ascension].....so why should I be ashamed again:laugh::laugh:
Far from it...it is the EXACT fulfillment of it....
I am not a mind reader....but I do read scriptures, and they tell us exactly,let me show you-
jn14;
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
jn16;
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth:
: and he will shew you things to come.
Do you get it now DHK?.....all truth, things to come, bring to their remembrance all that He taught them.....
I do not think so. I connect the dots scripturally.
I see scripture as a flow...I do not fragment it as your system does, so it should be no surprise that we are not on the same page.
They asked because the Spirit was not given as it was on Pentecost. the Spirit had been ministering to them before the cross.....but not as he did after as promised by Jesus in jn14-16.
It means the reign of the heavens extends over all the earth .Jesus ascending to the heavenly Jerusalem and Zion is sending forth His law to all the earth as in isa2.
It was welcomed by the Spiritual elect remnant.....and it began and progresses even now.
jn 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
16 These things understood not his disciples at the first:
they did not understand...at first, like you and other dispensationalists now-
now look what it says;
but when Jesus was glorified,
then remembered they that these things were written of him,
and that they had done these things unto him.
My previous quote in jn 12 shows you conclusion to be once again...mistaken:thumbs: this is very gloomy your worldview looks like defeat.
you have been offered correction on this but refuse it...that is up to you.
I have no where denied the second coming..i have asked you a dozen times not to bear false witness....this is how I know you are struggling and frustrated.
I understand. I have seen you do this with O.R. and Bosley and others
col2;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
You bear false witness once again...sadly.
Gal4 explains which one is in control and active
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Jesus has already come the first time to set up His Kingdom.
He came to earthly Jerusalem [mt21....the king came to zion} they rejected Him, he rejected them, and ascended into the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem to reign.
Well far from being ashamed....this has turned into another opportunity to point out how you miss verse after verse....this is embarrassing for you DHK...let me show you exactly why
yes...the question is about the Kingdom in which they like you lacked understanding about.
In jn 16[before the cross] Jesus explained that they could not bear all truth now.....that is ...when he the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth......
newsflash...This was speaking of the day of Pentecost....[after the 40 days and ascension].....so why should I be ashamed again:laugh::laugh:
Far from it...it is the EXACT fulfillment of it....
I am not a mind reader....but I do read scriptures, and they tell us exactly,let me show you-
jn14;
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
jn16;
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth:
: and he will shew you things to come.
Do you get it now DHK?.....all truth, things to come, bring to their remembrance all that He taught them.....
I do not think so. I connect the dots scripturally.
I see scripture as a flow...I do not fragment it as your system does, so it should be no surprise that we are not on the same page.
They asked because the Spirit was not given as it was on Pentecost. the Spirit had been ministering to them before the cross.....but not as he did after as promised by Jesus in jn14-16.
It means the reign of the heavens extends over all the earth .Jesus ascending to the heavenly Jerusalem and Zion is sending forth His law to all the earth as in isa2.
It was welcomed by the Spiritual elect remnant.....and it began and progresses even now.
jn 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
16 These things understood not his disciples at the first:
they did not understand...at first, like you and other dispensationalists now-
now look what it says;
but when Jesus was glorified,
then remembered they that these things were written of him,
and that they had done these things unto him.
My previous quote in jn 12 shows you conclusion to be once again...mistaken:thumbs: this is very gloomy your worldview looks like defeat.
nonsense
those perilous times came in ad70...
no...
you have been offered correction on this but refuse it...that is up to you.
I have no where denied the second coming..i have asked you a dozen times not to bear false witness....this is how I know you are struggling and frustrated.
I understand. I have seen you do this with O.R. and Bosley and others
col2;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
You bear false witness once again...sadly.