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Or better the term reprobation?
Why or why not?
I'll come out and say that I see biblical and logical reason for believing God created some for honor and some for common use.
Whenever I see anything about election or predestination, it's always about election/predestined to heaven and never hell. Now, the logical conclusion would be that if one is not chosen for heaven, then he's chosen for hell. The problem is that people are not in some "neutral" state, but in a state of condemnation. So people are already on their way to hell, and God elects them to salvation.
Here's a statement from a site that says something like this.
"Calvinists do not believe that men are damned without any reference to their sin. God passing by and leaving certain men in their sin is not the same as God damning men by the sheer force of His decree."
-http://www.oldtruth.com/calvinism/avoidingconfusion.html
A good source to understand the basics of the doctrine. Of course not all Calvinists are alike, but this looks pretty good from my eyes.
All people are already on their way to hell, and God elects only some of them to salvation. (please pardon the re-wording of your statement; however, it fits with the following statement)Whenever I see anything about election or predestination, it's always about election/predestined to heaven and never hell. Now, the logical conclusion would be that if one is not chosen for heaven, then he's chosen for hell. The problem is that people are not in some "neutral" state, but in a state of condemnation. So people are already on their way to hell, and God elects them to salvation.
Here's a statement from a site that says something like this.
"Calvinists do not believe that men are damned without any reference to their sin. God passing by and leaving certain men in their sin is not the same as God damning men by the sheer force of His decree."
-http://www.oldtruth.com/calvinism/avoidingconfusion.html
A good source to understand the basics of the doctrine. Of course not all Calvinists are alike, but this looks pretty good from my eyes.
Or better the term reprobation?
Why or why not?
I'll come out and say that I see biblical and logical reason for believing God created some for honor and some for common use.
I need someone to further explain how, if God chose some, why did He pass the others by? Why did He choose the ones He chose, and pass by the ones He passes by?
Could you please explain what you think Double Predestination is first?
In my opinion, double predestination is heresy, I'm not talking about traditional Calvinism, just Hyper-Calvinism.
In my opinion, double predestination is heresy, I'm not talking about traditional Calvinism, just Hyper-Calvinism.
You realize that this statement seems to indicate that man is capable of resisting God'spower?Excellent question Don....so here we go....
"We dare not forget that while God, according to the secret of his counsel, elects those who are to be saved...this same omnipotent God has made us morally responsible, so that we are lost, not because we could not be saved, but because we would not." Abraham Kuyper
And this statement seems to indicate that some sinners are worse than others?EWF said:Synod of Dort .... Not all, but some only, are elected, while others are passed by in the eternal decrees and these are punished "not only on account of their unbelief, but also for their other sins" (Chapter 1, Article 15).
Not sure you said what you meant to say. Using statements by other calvinists on this board, the calvinist position seems to be that the lost are incapable of belief on their own, and therefore were in a state of unbelief already; not "by themselves," but due to the absence of good (God) in them.EWF said:Here is what you must know.....and this is a critical point..... those that are lost are not caused by God to disbelieve, they do that all by themselves. To ordain their end, God needs only to withhold the special grace of regeneration.
How do you reconcile these statements with the synod of Dort statement EWF posted?It is His will,in short.He has mercy on some and chooses to harden others.There is no merit in any creature who He has chosen to give eternal life. all deserve condemnation --nobody deserves eternal life. So out of His sheer mercy he graciously saves the ones of His choosing --made before the world began.God has the prerogative,the right to do with His own whatsoever He wills and no one can question His righteousness.
Excellent question Don....so here we go....
"We dare not forget that while God, according to the secret of his counsel, elects those who are to be saved...this same omnipotent God has made us morally responsible, so that we are lost, not because we could not be saved, but because we would not." Abraham Kuyper
Synod of Dort .... Not all, but some only, are elected, while others are passed by in the eternal decrees and these are punished "not only on account of their unbelief, but also for their other sins" (Chapter 1, Article 15).
Here is what you must know.....and this is a critical point..... those that are lost are not caused by God to disbelieve, they do that all by themselves. To ordain their end, God needs only to withhold the special grace of regeneration.
It's the logical end to Calvinism. No other way around it.For the Calvi's -- Do you hold to double predestination?
Doesn't Rom. 9:21-22 teach double predestination or reprobation?It's the logical end to Calvinism. No other way around it.
It's the logical end to Calvinism. No other way around it.
It's not logical to say that they are equal. People are not "neutral" and God elects but people are guilty and God elects. God doesn't need to elect anyone to hell. They are already headed there.
It's not logical to say that they are equal. People are not "neutral" and God elects but people are guilty and God elects. God doesn't need to elect anyone to hell. They are already headed there.
A newborn infant is headed to hell?