First, what does it mean by they have "no excuse?" No excuse not to know God? But if they know God, should they not choose to pursue Him unto salvation as the only One who can save?
From Romans we see two types of revelation that you have referred to here. 1. Particular Revelation, or special revelation. v. 16-17 where the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith in the Gospel. 2. General revelation. God's power, Godhead through things that have been made "from the creation of the world" v.20. This sets the time frame what is spoken of the "they" in verses 21-32
Skypair, the text of Scripture teaches me that Paul is not speaking of the beginning of every human life, but of the history of the world. And it is, although they knew God, as past tense, not know God, as present tense. This history shows the progressive fall of man from a state of innocence and intimacy with God, to the sad state of idolatry, sin, uncleaness, and all manner of sin.
On thing I have found natural to man, and that is a sense of judgment, as it is written in v.32. But never is it natural to fallen man to know Gospel of Jesus Christ. Nor is it necessary that they do know it to be condemned of God, nor even the Law of God, but even their conscience because a law to them, showing the Law of God written upon their hearts.
What does Christ saying "And if I be lifted up, I will draw ALL men to Me" mean then (John 12:32)?
It means that through the death of Christ, not only Jews, but men out of every nation, tongue and tribe will be drawn and saved, having it secured for them and in His death.
Why, indeed, did God give us the scriptures?
God gave His Word to His people, and to them only. His Word being His special revelation to His covenant people.
And why, if God meant to draw all men but only to Christ, did He NOT supply a Christ -- a "stumbling block and foolishness" -- for the OT Jews and Gentiles/"strangers" to be saved by?
The Jews have not all stumbled have they? For there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Rom 11:1-5
Not everything of God is "hidden wisdom." Hidden wisdom, as 1Cor 2:11 says, "even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. " You can't know the things of God until you are indwelt by the Spirit. They are like "particular revelation" I guess you would call it.
I agree with this.
However, the words of the gospel, like the Bible itself, are "general revelation." Ask any man why Christ died and he will likely know for sin. They will know He was resurrected. They will know that there are people claim to be saved by that knowledge. This is the knowledge that Paul imparted in 1Cor 2:1-5. Do you claim that most men know about Noah, Moses, Abraham, Jesus? There is no "mystery" about these that qualify them as "hidden wisdom of God in mystery," 2:7 All you are doing is taking 1Cor 1:18 and comparing it to 1Cor 2:14, right? In 1:18, it is PREACHING that is foolishness -- BUT (1:21) "it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." God is not known by worldly wisdom but by preaching, 1:21 which Paul is careful to say he did in 1Cor 2:1-5.
In the main I agree with you, except that the Gospel is general revelation. Yes, the world knows of Jesus, what others believe about Him, et. as you say. But to them it is foolishness, but to us it is the power of God. Is this truth relative then? By no means. They are in blindness, knowing the facts but denying them. They go on in their own wisdom, but in their own wisdom have not come to know God.
And your right, it pleased God that He would save believers through preaching, which the world finds most foolish. And we see this in our calling too. God chose many of us, unwise, foolish, base, et. things that are not. Why? That no flesh should glory in His presense.
"But
of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." v.30-31
The natural man can understand preaching though. It is the preaching of Peter at Pentecost -- natural men flocked to Christ on that day. Cornelius could understand it, the jailer could.
I see in this statement a missing truth. That it is by the Word of God we are born again, not the will of man, et. Unregenerate man does not procur for himself the new birth, but God does it, quickening, granting repentence and faith, indwelling the man, shining His light in their darkness.
Maybe this will highlight the issue: Before you were saved, are you claiming that you were a "spiritual man?" Regenerated before you believed? If so, then you are not saved because remember, it is by preaching that you are born again/regenerated/given the hidden wisdom of God.
Before I was born again/regenerated I was dead in my trespasses and sins. When the Gospel came to me at that particular time I wondered if it could be true, but I did not "make a decision for Christ" before I was born again. If I say I did, I would be a liar. A calling came, "Arise O sinner, and Christ will shine on thee." And this calling came with power and I was filled with light of Christ. In that very instant I believed. I also repented as evidenced by the fruit of my life. It was not much different than how we read of Cornelius and his house recieving salvation. While Peter was still speaking the Holy Spirit fell upon them. Same thing happened to me except for the tongues.
What YOU apparently heard and believed (if you claim regeneration before beleif) was NOT the gospel of salvation that Jesus and the apostles taught that the brings men to life. You would be trusting in a god who says he will give you his wisdom before he gives you salvation.
The Gospel of my salvation is Christ and Him crucified and risen from the dead. It is Him I have believed and trusted. Herein is my testimony: "...of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: " It is OF HIM that I am IN Christ Jesus, not of me. And Christ Jesus is my wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. If that makes you think I am not saved, then I am not sure what salvation is to you. But this is the Salvation of the Lord.
Here's the nub of it as I read it last night in "All the Dortrines of the Bible" --- you must be CONVERTED (turn to God of your own will) BEFORE you can be REGENERATED by the exclusive work of God.
If that were the case i would have never come to God, for there is none to seeks after God.
Yeah, but apparently you won't admit how in each instance, the unsaved, natural men chose Christ and were saved.
Since the Scripture denies it, so will I.
) Our righteousness comes from Christ through our faith in Him. Whether a Jew or Gentile doesn't matter, because He has written His law on our hearts in the form of the conscience. That's why no one has an excuse (between the God given conscience and general revelation in nature, God has given man what he needs to seek God).