Foreknowledge

[Jarthur001]

All men have the right to come to Jesus, but without the message no one can come.

The Holy Spirit is in the words of Jesus without His words we have nothing to follow as the scripture says'

Romans 10:14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[Isaiah 52:7 ]

When Paul said to Timothy that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, it was a calling to reach out.

Well...nothing here that a calvinist would say no to.

 

[GordonSlocum]

All men have the right to come to Jesus, but without the message no one can come.

The Holy Spirit is in the words of Jesus without His words we have nothing to follow as the scripture says'

Romans 10:14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[Isaiah 52:7 ]

When Paul said to Timothy that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, it was a calling to reach out.

Amen, Evangelism plain and simple.

1. I solemnly charge {you} in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2. preach the word; be ready in season {and} out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but {wanting} to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4. and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

 

[Jarthur001]

(1) Tulipism to me is a false doctrine - I don't see it as from Heaven
(2) Busting Hell wide open is a jab that if you and all Calvinist are in one place the question would come up "who is elect or not" and the ones not elect would bust hell wide open, and they would if they are not elect.
(3) Yes I truly believe the Philosophical Calvinism is a man made belief system. It is not from the Bible.

Do you see my way of believing the Bible as true? Yes or No

I can't judge you. If you are saved - that is wonderful. Weather or not your salvation is by your way of seeing it or mine is the issue. I am attacking the doctrine not you.

Look at it this way, You have a mom and dad and a wife and lets say 4 kids. Who is elect and not elect. In your view your family is a representative sample of humans. The percentages of saved vs. lost is small vs. large and that is all we have to go on. So, because it is some verses all then if God picked some and not all on the basis of what TULIP teaches then some in your family are condemned to hell weather they like it or not.

As I see it the same can be true of my family, but and a big BUT is that I believe everyone in my family decides for themselves the Heaven and Hell issue. They have all heard the Gospel and they all have been called to believe but not all have accepted the call and perhaps they will or will not.

In Calvinism the lost one/s can't (your view is they can't and God is not going to save them period)

In my view (the correct view) they can if they will and God is not forcing them or making them. Man has a choice in accepting the gift or rejecting it.

With all respect...you post things claiming you know the doctrines of grace, yet when you post, you prove you do not.

Most of what you claim to be Calvinist, is hyper-Calvinist if anything. You need to slow down and ask what we believe and not jump all over us saying we are of the devil and going to hell and calling us names. Its not like your the 1st person that has come on here like this...thinking they know it all. My goodness...I could not count the number. If you act right, then we can learn from each other. But just going by your post, you came on here thinking you was going to teach those Calvinist a thing or two and I for one have seen nothing new other then your homemade names.

If you would like to know what we believe..read a book, or ask. When I say read a book..i mean a Calvinist book, not a "how to kill a everyday Calvinst in 1000 easy ways."

It is clear by your post you have never read John Calvin. You fell for the "brainwashing" thing...the "robots"...and other crazy ideas. If you want a good read..ask one of us...or just ask what we believe and stop telling us what we believe.

 

[GordonSlocum]

Let cut the chase OK.

Do you believe that God picked some because none of the all can and that of the remaining ones will never - no never have the opportunity to get saved.

Just a yes or no

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

Let cut the chase OK.

Do you believe that God picked some because none of the all can and that of the remaining ones will never - no never have the opportunity to get saved.

Just a yes or no

First, you need to learn more respect for what others believe.

Second, even you do not believe that everyone will have an opportunity to be saved, I am sure.

What about the billions of people who have lived in communist China and throughout Asia and India and the Middle Eastern Region who have never heard the gospel? Do you think someone can go to heaven who never believed in Jesus?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Let cut the chase OK.

Do you believe that God picked some because none of the all can and that of the remaining ones will never - no never have the opportunity to get saved.

Just a yes or no

Please read your text. Does it make sense? Try to make sense and we will try to answer you. Thank you.

 

[GordonSlocum]

First, you need to learn more respect for what others believe.

Second, even you do not believe that everyone will have an opportunity to be saved, I am sure.

What about the billions of people who have lived in communist China and throughout Asia and India and the Middle Eastern Region who have never heard the gospel? Do you think someone can go to heaven who never believed in Jesus?

I will ask the question again.

True of False

God Picked some
All the rest God did not pick and is not going to pick True or False




No I believe everyone at all times had or will have an opportunity to respond to God's Grace, regardless of where it is. Yes I believe everyone has had, will have and are going to have that opportunity.

I have answered yours question now answer mine.

 

[Brother Bob]

If God elected due to foreknowlege of one believing, what about the ones he foreknew would never believe? He still allowed them to come into existence knowing they would spend eternity in hell? What about John 15:16? You did not choose me but I chose you and appointed you....

Time and chance has happened to all. They were the ones who rejected God, not the other way around. God just knew what they did.

They shall know me from the least unto the greatest.

There is a Spirit in man the inspiration of God almighty that giveth them understanding.

Did all those under the Law Covenant know who Jesus was or did they just know God made a promise to send a messiah, and knew God and had faith in God?

Did all those before the Law know who Jesus was or were they a concious unto themselves and knew God and had faith in God?

 

[Brother Bob]

What about all those in the furthest reaches of the world, who never get to hear the Gospel? Is it fair that they are lost when they never get to hear about Jesus? I know the answer by the way. I'm just responding to this guy's idea of fairness.

Good question for Calvinist did God only save the US?

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

I will ask the question again.

True of False

God Picked some
All the rest God did not pick and is not going to pick True or False




No I believe everyone at all times had or will have an opportunity to respond to God's Grace, regardless of where it is. Yes I believe everyone has had, will have and are going to have that opportunity.

I have answered yours question now answer mine.

So you believe that people can go to heaven without believing in Jesus as their Savior? Is that what you are saying?

Yes, now that you have made an actual tangible statement.

 

[GordonSlocum]

Please read your text. Does it make sense? Try to make sense and we will try to answer you. Thank you.

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

 

[reformedbeliever]

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

Picked? Picked for what? President? Mrs. USA? I would think that God has the right to *pick* whom ever He chooses wouldn't you? After all, its His creation. Doesn't the potter have the right over the clay to make one unto honor and one unto dishonor? I'd love to see you exeget Romans 9. Wait....... i'm still waiting on Psalms 139 huh? Good day.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

You are really starting to lose me hear.

X= Universalism (everyone goes to heaven)

Y= Exclusivism (only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven)

Z= the ones that are not Y?

I repeat, so you believe that people can go to heaven without believing in Jesus as their Savior? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Jarthur001]

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

God elects. But this is not what you asked.

 

[reformedbeliever]

God elects. But this is not what you asked.

Maybe its not time to leave yet..... this is getting fun... lol

 

[GordonSlocum]

God elects. But this is not what you asked.

I agree God elects but you did not answer my question.

Here is the question again

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

I agree God elects but you did not answer my question.

Here is the question again

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

Now look who is avoiding the question. I repeat, so you believe that people can go to heaven without believing in Jesus as their Savior? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Jarthur001]

I agree God elects but you did not answer my question.

Here is the question again

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

Again you do not ask, you demand.

Therefore I answer this way.

God elects to His own pleasure.

Election is not salvation but is unto salvation.

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election (elect) hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded" (Rom. 11:7).

"God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation" (2 Thess. 2:13)

 

[GordonSlocum]

I repeat, so you believe that people can go to heaven without believing in Jesus as their Savior? Is that what you are saying?

All people that believe in God of the Bible can go to heaven according to the dispensation they live in. We are not told everything in the Bible. Example: Melchizeidek is an interesting individual. We don't know a lot about him. Also, in Noah's day we have very little information to go on but we have some inferences that suggest all are preached to. Did they believe in the name of Jesus. No. The gospel then was the message Noah preached. This would be the same in all previous generation up to Christ, and I would take it into the transition of the church as well.

So to answer you question the way you ask it is Yes old testament saints did not understand or know to believe in the name Jesus. The object of faith is the Gospel God requires of then which all point to Christ.

Because God desires all to be saved and all to repent I see this as to all people at all times everywhere.

Now would you please answer mine here it is again.

Here is the question again

X = all the people of all time

Y = a small part of all the the People of all time

Z= the ones that are not Y

God picked Y
God is not going to pick Z

True of false.

 

[Jarthur001]

I

All people that believe in God of the Bible can go to heaven according to the dispensation they live in. We are not told everything in the Bible. Example: Melchizeidek is an interesting individual. We don't know a lot about him. Also, in Noah's day we have very little information to go on but we have some inferences that suggest all are preached to. Did they believe in the name of Jesus. No. The gospel then was the message Noah preached. This would be the same in all previous generation up to Christ, and I would take it into the transition of the church as well.

So to answer you question the way you ask it is Yes old testament saints did not understand or know to believe in the name Jesus. The object of faith is the Gospel God requires of then which all point to Christ.

Wait now. How about other nations that were never told of the true God? Were they given the same grace as Gods choosen people?

added.........

I'll shut up now. I have a board meeting.