Foreknowledge

reformedbeliever · Nov 7, 2006

GordonSlocum said:
God knows all the possibilities. If a person would have chosen this instead of that. In other words if a person in some remotest part of the world would freely believe if they heard about Christ then I personally believe some how some way God will provide the witness. The Missionaries I spoke of to me indicates that. I see God knowing all the possibilities. In his love and desire he knows weather or not every single individual would accept Christ or not. On that basis I believe God sovereignly coordinates circumstances to bring a witness to that person . Weather it was OT or NT God knows all that will believe and he elects them. Knowing they will believe He guides events and circumstance whereby that individual will hear the gospel and respond unto salvation.

I don’t fit into any of your terms or definitions.

Sure you do. You are an inclusivist and a synergist. You are semi-pelagian at the least if not pelagian. If I am wrong, just show me where.

webdog · Nov 7, 2006

reformedbeliever said:
Sure you do. You are an inclusivist and a synergist. You are semi-pelagian at the least if not pelagian. If I am wrong, just show me where.

If you are right, show how you are. It's not his argument to prove what you say is wrong, it's up to you to prove what you are saying is right.

reformedbeliever · Nov 7, 2006

webdog said:
If you are right, show how you are. It's not his argument to prove what you say is wrong, it's up to you to prove what you are saying is right.

Lol...... prove I'm right? Like he does? Lets see what he says.... calvinism is the doctrine from hell....... calvinist are lost..... calvinist worship another god. Get real webdog. If you don't know the definition ...... look it up.

webdog · Nov 7, 2006

reformedbeliever said:
Lol...... prove I'm right? Like he does? Lets see what he says.... calvinism is the doctrine from hell....... calvinist are lost..... calvinist worship another god. Get real webdog. If you don't know the definition ...... look it up.

Look up the definition of what? You labeled him...back it up, or shut up.

Jarthur001 · Nov 7, 2006

webdog said:
Um...doesn't the text state so that they may believe? It doesn't say He chose them to believe, as you conclude.

Indeed...and if you check..this is what I said. Election is not salvation.

You even clipped it in your post...

God chose that they may KNOW!! Did you see that? God chose that His people may KNOW Him.. and that is not all...there is more.
God chose that they may believe. What? God did not choose because He foresaw? nope..that is a lie of the freewill group.
God foresaw because He choose. God choose for them to believe!!

And that is the reason for election. AGAIN...it was not because God forsaw...it was that they may know GOD!!!

reformedbeliever · Nov 7, 2006

webdog said:
Look up the definition of what? You labeled him...back it up, or shut up.

He said I could not put a name on him.... I just did. He holds those theological views. If you do not know what the definition of what those theological terms are... then look them up. Shut up? Lol

webdog · Nov 7, 2006

Indeed...and if you check..this is what I said. Election is not salvation.

They go hand in hand. This is like saying chewing food is not eating. Eating is the act of chewing and swallowing.

webdog · Nov 7, 2006

reformedbeliever said:
He said I could not put a name on him.... I just did. He holds those theological views. If you do not know what the definition of what those theological terms are... then look them up. Shut up? Lol

I don't need to look up those definitions. Anyone can randomly label people, big deal. I can call you a mormonistic satan worshipper and it would mean squat. If I'm going to label...I'm going to back up why I'm doing so, something you have refused to do.

reformedbeliever · Nov 7, 2006

webdog said:
I don't need to look up those definitions. Anyone can randomly label people, big deal. I can call you a mormonistic satan worshipper and it would mean squat. If I'm going to label...I'm going to back up why I'm doing so, something you have refused to do.

I've learned that from you free willers.

lbaker · Nov 7, 2006

Hey, I'm relatively new to all this Calvinist vs. non-Calvinist stuff and I wish someone would answer this question: if God does elect some, does it not follow that He deliberately does NOT elect others? I mean if He elected me, and I had no choice in the matter, does it also mean He (theoretically) chose not to elect the guy in the office down the hall and that that guy has NO hope of salvation, and also has no choice in the matter?

Is this how election "works" in an oversimplified form or am I entirely missing the point?

Thanks,

Les

Jarthur001 · Nov 7, 2006

webdog said:
They go hand in hand. This is like saying chewing food is not eating. Eating is the act of chewing and swallowing.

its saying Gods people was choosen that they may know Him...and the others are not.
its saying that Gods people wasw choosen they they may believe ...and the others were not.

this is the point of being choosen. Its picking on over another.

and..this is what the text says...not i choose you because I knew you would choose me. that is silly.

Jarthur001 · Nov 7, 2006

lbaker said:
Hey, I'm relatively new to all this Calvinist vs. non-Calvinist stuff and I wish someone would answer this question: if God does elect some, does it not follow that He deliberately does NOT elect others? I mean if He elected me, and I had no choice in the matter, does it also mean He (theoretically) chose not to elect the guy in the office down the hall and that that guy has NO hope of salvation, and also has no choice in the matter?

Is this how election "works" in an oversimplified form or am I entirely missing the point?

Thanks,

Les

Les...

that is the point indeed. It didn't take you long. Yet some say it takes years to understand. It is simple...but one must give up their will to see.

Welcome to the doctrines of grace..:smilewinkgrin:

lbaker · Nov 7, 2006

I appreciate the explanation. I'll have to think about this for a while now. Frankly, I find the fate of the theoretical non-elected guy down the hall very troubling and hard to reconcile with a loving Father God.

But, at least now I have a clearer idea of what election is from the Calvinist viewpoint.

Thanks again,

Les

Brother Bob · Nov 7, 2006

I appreciate the explanation. I'll have to think about this for a while now. Frankly, I find the fate of the theoretical non-elected guy down the hall very troubling and hard to reconcile with a loving Father God.

But, at least now I have a clearer idea of what election is from the Calvinist viewpoint.

Thanks again,

Les

Guy down the hall could be your wife and children instead of guy down the hall.

and..this is what the text says...not i choose you because I knew you would choose me. that is silly.

Not near as silly as He chose me but left my child out!

Jarthur001 · Nov 7, 2006

lbaker said:
I appreciate the explanation. I'll have to think about this for a while now. Frankly, I find the fate of the theoretical non-elected guy down the hall very troubling and hard to reconcile with a loving Father God.

But, at least now I have a clearer idea of what election is from the Calvinist viewpoint.

Thanks again,

Les

With no election, no one would have hope of salvation. The word we use is passover. Whosoever will may come...but the point is...no one comes. No one seeks after God. All are on their way to hell...and God elects out of mercy and love, as His bride. The others, He passes over and leaves them in their sin. Yet...if they will come, He will save them. The door is not locked...its open...but no one comes on their own. Thus..election

Jarthur001 · Nov 7, 2006

Brother Bob said:
Not near as silly as He chose me but left my child out!

Let it be known once again that freewill is based on MANS feelings as seen above.

Brother Bob · Nov 7, 2006

Let it be known once again that freewill is based on MANS feelings as seen above.

ability to be free completely given by God, amen
Choose you this day whom you shall serve.
Whosoever is athirst, let him come and take of the water of life freely, amen,
Absolutely, use that which God give you and choose the good part that shall never be taken away.
All this is the word of God. amen,

Jarthur001 · Nov 7, 2006

Where as...Calvinism is based on Gods word.

10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen:

1)...that ye may know
2) and believe me,
3) and understand that I am he:

before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Jarthur001 · Nov 7, 2006

Brother Bob said:
ability to be free completely given by God, amen
Choose you this day whom you shall serve.
Whosoever is athirst, let him come and take of the water of life freely, amen,
Absolutely, use that which God give you and choose the good part that shall never be taken away.
All this is the word of God. amen,

see what I mean...:0

Brother Bob · Nov 7, 2006

Quote:
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen:

1)...that ye may know
2) and believe me,
3) and understand that I am he:

before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

They were chosen because of faith or belief.
I have chosen you out of the world, that you are no longer of the world. amen,

Truly is God's word. amen,

Foreknowledge

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