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Foreknowledge

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psalms109:31

Active Member
God hates

God sent His Son into the world because He loves them, even those that will never believe.

They have a same chance as you do to believe, God has not excluded any one from the gift.

If they do not come it is because the ones He sent out did not Go to them to bring the good news or they heard the message and walked away.

God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowlefdge of the truth.
 
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reformedbeliever

New Member
psalms109:31 said:
God sent His Son into the world because He loves them, even those that will never believe.

They have a same chance as you do to believe, God has not excluded any one from the gift.

If they do not come it is because the ones He sent out did not Go to them to bring the good news or they heard the message and walked away.
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Does God foreknow who will believe? Yes. Does God allow those who He knows will never believe come into existence? Yes. Kinda blows your theory too Psalms.
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
Of course He sees all at once.... but they don't come into existence until time for them to come into existence. Changes nothing.
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Sure it changes everything of what you said if God sees their unbelief the same time He allowed them to come into existence.
To God, it all happened at once not in time as you are looking at it.
 
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reformedbeliever

New Member
lbaker said:
Hey, I'm relatively new to all this Calvinist vs. non-Calvinist stuff and I wish someone would answer this question: if God does elect some, does it not follow that He deliberately does NOT elect others? I mean if He elected me, and I had no choice in the matter, does it also mean He (theoretically) chose not to elect the guy in the office down the hall and that that guy has NO hope of salvation, and also has no choice in the matter?

Is this how election "works" in an oversimplified form or am I entirely missing the point?

Thanks,

Les
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He elects some and passes over others... according to His own will. They do have a choice in the matter. Those He elects will choose to come.... John 6:37 Those He passes over will not come. Romans 3:11 John 8:43-44 Mark 4:11-12 and many others. They act according to their nature and choose according to their nature. They are by nature children of wrath. They are not born again.
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
He was just showing Israel that He was the true God and not a false God James and they were His witnesses that it was indeed Him. He wanted them to know and believe that it was Him James is all that passage is saying.

Isaiah, chapter 43

"9": Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

"10": Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and (believe me, and understand that I am he): before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

"11": I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

"12": I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

"13": Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

:godisgood:
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(believe me, and understand that I am he)
This is not the same as "having belief in the Lord Jesus Christ". These people were already Israel and were already God's chosen people. God just wanted them to believe that it was Him that was amongst them at that moment. A big difference than that to believe for Salvation.
 
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reformedbeliever

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Sure it changes everything of what you said if God sees their unbelief the same time He allowed them to come into existence.
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He still sees their unbelief and still allows them to come into existence, knowing they will never believe. He still sends them to hell. Changes nothing. Unless He loves those He sends to hell.
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
I'm interested Bob. Tell me how
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You are looking at it in time but God saw it all at once and not in time. He saw more than that. He saw our death, those in hell, Resurrection, our being Glorified and redeemed from the earth all at once and not in time as you speak of it. You say sends them to Hell but again He sees all at once their unbelief, their being in Hell, the end. You try to be the mind of God and you can't.
 
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reformedbeliever

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Sure it changes everything of what you said if God sees their unbelief the same time He allowed them to come into existence.
To God, it all happened at once not in time as you are looking at it.
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Ahhhh....... keys sticking again bob? You are trying to say God could not see before they were brought into existence? God sees and is present in all time bob. He knew before they existed that they would not believe. You can't wriggle out of that.
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
Ahhhh....... keys sticking again bob? You are trying to say God could not see before they were brought into existence? God sees and is present in all time bob. He knew before they existed that they would not believe. You can't wriggle out of that.
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I really think you need to read the post again reformed. You are trying to place God in time.
 
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reformedbeliever

New Member
Brother Bob said:
I really think you need to read the post again reformed. You are trying to place God in time.
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I don't bind God to any time. He foreknows all things. He is present in all time. He is present outside time. Does not change the fact that He knows before He allows to come into existence. No matter what you say bob.
 
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psalms109:31

Active Member
scripture

reformedbeliever said:
Does God foreknow who will believe? Yes. Does God allow those who He knows will never believe come into existence? Yes. Kinda blows your theory too Psalms.
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If the ones that would not believe did not come into existant then the one that will come through that person seed that will believe would not come into existance, you are trying to just let me see a small picture, without looking at the big one.

God uses us all to complete His will, even those who will never believe.

We are not to lean on our own understanding but trust in our Lord Jesus Christ and He will direct our paths
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
I am saying He saw it reformed as He sees all.

You keep saying He allowed them to come into existence but you don't mention what you believe and that is according to your belief He allows them to go to Hell without a choice. At least we say they had a choice to believe.
 
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npetreley

New Member
If God sees everything that happens in creation all at once, outside of time, then He is most certainly the ultimate cause of everything in His creation, including sin.

Now, if one wants to postulate that sin exists because God creates and THEN sees everything that happens in His creation all at once, then this contradicts the notion that God is outside of time, since His creation would have to preceed what He knows about His creation. It also contradicts scripture.

It also raises the question: If God creates and THEN sees what happens all at once, which is why sin exists, then why didn't He just uncreate and repeat until He got it right?
 
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reformedbeliever

New Member
Brother Bob said:
I am saying He saw it reformed as He sees all.

You keep saying He allowed them to come into existence but you don't mention what you believe and that is according to your belief He allows them to go to Hell without a choice. At least we say they had a choice to believe.
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Another dishonest misrepresentation.
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
If God sees everything that happens in creation all at once, outside of time, then He is most certainly the ultimate cause of everything in His creation, including sin.
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You err greatly. Because He sees it don't mean He causes it.
 
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reformedbeliever

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Come on reformed. You can say you believe they have a choice all you want but you don't believe they can accept salvation, same thing as no choice IMO.
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That is your incorrect opinion.... which you are entitled to. They choose according to their nature. They are children of wrath.
 
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