1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Four questions for Calvinists.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by glad4mercy, Oct 27, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 7 of 7
  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The difference is that some believe God does indeed know all that there is to know, but exclude contingent events or outcomes as being among "all there is to know". They don't view God as less omniscient (e.g., God's omnipotence is not threatened because God can't make a square circle. Open Theists like Brian McLaren consider pre-knowledge of such contingent events along the same lines). Reformational Arminianists, like Robert Picirilli, view God as completely omniscient to all things occuring in time. God knows who will respond and those are the ones He elects. Although the mode of divine knowledge is the same in salvation (God's knowledge is dependent on the result of human free-agency), I don't think it fair in any way to speak of Open Theism as a form of Arminianism. One (Open Theism) does view God as having limited himself to knowing future events, or that future contingent events (apart from God effecting an outcome) are unknowable. But Reformational or Classic Arminianism does not.

    I also believe that Christ died for all, and even that God desires that all should be saved. And yet all are not saved.
     
    #121 JonC, Nov 12, 2016
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Can God not reall know all things possible, and still remain God though? Can eb God ad everhave to know anything new to Him?
    This viewpoint on God "knowing" is foreign to the Scriptures, ad createsa God in our own image...
     
    #122 Yeshua1, Nov 12, 2016
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I suspect it is more that they don't understand what the term "free will" means.

    Case in point: One of our erstwhile posters here on the Baptist Board, whom I often agree with, has, for a signature line, a paragraph which starts by saying, "Free will is defined as “volition” and this sustains the meaning that man has the ability to consciously choose; one cannot do both, have this ability and not have this ability in any logical sense."

    As you can see, this erstwhile poster starts off with a mistaken premise: IE, that "Free will is defined as “volition” - which, of course, it is not. All people have volition. Everyone makes choices. But those choices are limited by their nature.

    For instance, a fly can walk on the ceiling. I may want to walk on the ceiling, I may choose to walk on the ceiling, but I can't. Why not? It is not in my nature to be able to walk on the ceiling. But I can still walk, anywhere and at any time I choose to. I just can't walk where my nature forbids me to go.

    Spiritually speaking, a person is only able to make choices within their moral nature. A lost man's free will is bound to the law of sin and death. He can only make choices that are compatible with his moral nature, in this case, fallen.

    A saved man can make choices within his moral nature, which, after conversion, includes the ability to love, believe in, and obey God.

    So, "free will" does not equate to "volition." All that we do we do of our own volition. But the will of the lost man remains bound to the law of sin and death. No matter how much he may want to go to heaven, he cannot do so because it is not within his fallen moral nature to accomplish that.

    But the will of the saved man has been set free from the law of sin and death and is now, voluntarily, bound to the law of New Life in Christ. And now our moral nature (new life in Christ, and His Righteousness) allows us to believe, obey, and eventually, stand in His presence.

    :)
     
    #123 TCassidy, Nov 12, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We have meanst o freely choose to do whatevr is right to our sin natures, but accepting Jesus to get saved not one of tem!

    As we wo uld resist doing that act ...
     
    #124 Yeshua1, Nov 12, 2016
  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,149
    Likes Received:
    293
    Its our free will to be able to love God and decide not to that makes SIN a SIN.

    Do any of you walk outside and glare at the rocks because they don't love, believe or obey God?


    Matthew 6

    25“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26“Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? 27“And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? 28“And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30“But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! 31“Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ 32“For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33“But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.


    Does a GENTILE need salvation? Do you need salvation? According to the Calvinist position we would have to respond to Jesus, NO we are not much worth then the birds we should toil and spin like crazy.

    You don't SEEK the kingdom and righteousness, the kingdom and righteousness has to seek you first. THEN all things will be added to you.

    If your seeking righteousness, that's a good hint you haven't got it.


    BACKWARDS........BACKWARDS........BACKWARDS.
     
    #125 utilyan, Nov 12, 2016
  6. crixus

    crixus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    If your seeking righteousness, that's a good hint you haven't got it. I wrote that one down to share with others. Thanks! *Here's some good stuff: https://www.fwbtheology.com/?s=calvinism
     
    #126 crixus, Dec 12, 2016
  7. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wouldn't get too far, because I am not God
     
    #127 glad4mercy, Mar 19, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  8. jeremiah1five

    jeremiah1five Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2018
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    13
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    If I may...
    I am not Calvinist, but would like to reply.

    Q1: "Can the cross save a sinner BEFORE they hear the Gospel? (Romans 10:13-15)"
    A1: The answer is yes. God saves merely on His Promise TO save. Also, Paul is addressing a people in Rome ALREADY saved:

    Romans 1:7 (KJV)
    7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    In Romans 10:6-11 Paul is quoting the Old Testament. The verses in 9 and 10 is NOT a salvation formula as many in Christendom believe and teach. It is error to tell a person to say "this" with your mouth and heart and you will be saved. It is a lie. Paul writes these verses to encourage the believers ALREADY saved in Rome and (Italy).

    Q2: "Can a person be Christ's without the Holy Spirit? (Romans 8:9)"
    A2: NO. As Paul further says in Romans:

    Romans 8:9 (KJV)
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Q3: "What is the God appointed means for a person receive the Holy Spirit? (Galatians 3:2)"
    A3: The good pleasure of His will:

    Ephesians 1:5-7 (KJV)
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Q4: Can a person be regenerated before receiving the Holy Spirit?
    A4: NO. The regeneration IS the Holy Spirit applying the salvation bought by the Son on Calvary.

    END STATEMENT: So you have receiving the Holy Spirit necessary to regeneration, and you have the hearing of faith necessary to receiving the Holy Spirit, Therefore, the hearing of faith is necessary in regeneration.

    RESPONSE: No, it is not. Christ is Faith Personified. It is not YOUR faith by which God honors that saves you, but Christ's Perfect Faith God honors and by which you are saved. Dead men have no faith.

    Ephesians 2:1 (KJV)
    1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    Galatians 2:16 (KJV)
    16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
     
    #128 jeremiah1five, Oct 17, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread is 2 years old. For that reason, I am closing it.
     
    #129 Squire Robertsson, Oct 17, 2018
Page 7 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...