Free Will Origin of Sin

[loDebar]

After this topic of the existence Free Will has been discussed at length and continues with errors, I was undecided how to respond. I considered the using the scripture, definitions of words and modern examples. But I do not think this would be adequate due to the nature the arguments being presented, So I decided to present one question.

Did Satan have Free Will when he sinned?

Yes?, then Free Will Exists
No?, Then God is the origin of Sin

What say Ye?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Satan certainly had free will when he sinned, as did Adam and Eve before they fell. Whether Satan has it now, the Scripture doesn't tell us; I suspect not.
But if you suppose that God did not know that Satan would sin and had not placed it within His eternal plan, you are very much mistaken.

 

[loDebar]

Satan certainly had free will when he sinned, as did Adam and Eve before they fell. Whether Satan has it now, the Scripture doesn't tell us; I suspect not.
But if you suppose that God did not know that Satan would sin and had not placed it within His eternal plan, you are very much mistaken.

not mistaken, God knows all.
Why suppose Satan does not have free will now? He has less power now but has God restricted Satan's wishes?

 

[Mikey]

After this topic of the existence Free Will has been discussed at length and continues with errors, I was undecided how to respond. I considered the using the scripture, definitions of words and modern examples. But I do not think this would be adequate due to the nature the arguments being presented, So I decided to present one question.

Did Satan have Free Will when he sinned?

Yes?, then Free Will Exists
No?, Then God is the origin of Sin

What say Ye?

the question of free will is in respect to Post-fall not pre-fall. We were not "Dead in sin/trespasses" before the fall.

 

[loDebar]

the question of free will is in respect to Post-fall not pre-fall. We were not "Dead in sin/trespasses" before the fall.

How is that different? Did Eve and Adam have free choice in order to sin but not afterward? Do you have a wish to sin but yet still do? as Paul.

Dead to sin is for the saved, Eph 2:1

 

[percho]

Is free will, the right, to choose, weather to do good and or evil?

And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? Gen 3:11 Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:

Why did God not want them to know good and evil? Did he want them to have free will or not to have free will?

Was it, free will, that they took, for themselves? The knowledge of good and evil?

 

[Mikey]

How is that different? Did Eve and Adam have free choice in order to sin but not afterward? Do you have a wish to sin but yet still do? as Paul.

Dead to sin is for the saved, Eph 2:1

Eph 2:1-2
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world..."

I said 'dead in sin' not 'dead to sin'.

Adam and Eve were not affected by Original sin pre-fall (obviously), which we are now.

 

[Yeshua1]

After this topic of the existence Free Will has been discussed at length and continues with errors, I was undecided how to respond. I considered the using the scripture, definitions of words and modern examples. But I do not think this would be adequate due to the nature the arguments being presented, So I decided to present one question.

Did Satan have Free Will when he sinned?

Yes?, then Free Will Exists
No?, Then God is the origin of Sin

What say Ye?

Satan and Adam were created to have free will and made a real choice to sin, so they were the cause of sin!

 

[Revmitchell]

Satan and Adam were created to have free will and made a real choice to sin, so they were the cause of sin!

Then God was not sovereign pre-fall.

 

[Yeshua1]

Then God was not sovereign pre-fall.

God has always been sovereign!

 

[Revmitchell]

God has always been sovereign!

Oh well don't you guys argue that if man has a choice to accept salvation or not then it means God is not sovereign?

 

[loDebar]

Eph 2:1-2
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world..."

I said 'dead in sin' not 'dead to sin'.

Adam and Eve were not affected by Original sin pre-fall (obviously), which we are now.

The saved are unresponsive to the debt of sin as a dead man.

The lost are not dead in sin.

 

[loDebar]

He is sovereign in the wishes He always us to act upon

 

[Mikey]

The saved are unresponsive to the debt of sin as a dead man.

The lost are not dead in sin.

the passage is clearly stating that before they were saved (made alive) in Christ, they were dead in sin. Those who are not saved (the lost) are dead in sin.

 

[Revmitchell]

Can anyone tell me, if we are ad dead to sin as Christians as were dead spiritually when we were lost the how come we can still sin

 

[TCassidy]

I can't imagine why you would ask such a question.

The old man is dead in trespass and sin.

The new man is alive in Christ.

The old man sins.

The new man is incapable of sinning.

That is what John's epistles are all about.

 

[Revmitchell]

But we are dead to sin

 

[loDebar]

I can't imagine why you would ask such a question.

The old man is dead in trespass and sin.

The new man is alive in Christ.

The old man sins.

The new man is incapable of sinning.

That is what John's epistles are all about.

The new man can sin but it is forgiven , as you know, Our sin is not on our account since Christ paid for it all.

 

[loDebar]

But we are dead to sin

You have it right. The unrepentant is not dead to sin, nor in sin. The saved is dead to sin as compared to previously being responsive to sin. We have a new master We cannot listen to the old one.

 

[Dave G]

Satan and Adam were created to have free will and made a real choice to sin, so they were the cause of sin!

Then God was not sovereign pre-fall.

God is God, and we are dirt-poor sinners.
He saves, and He damns.
He reigns supreme, and we as His creations are not in a position to negotiate with Him or to declare that He is anything other than what He says He is.

He is "sovereign" all the time, whether we, as men, like it or not.

Oh well don't you guys argue that if man has a choice to accept salvation or not then it means God is not sovereign?

Where you see your choice, I see His.

I believe His words in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Ephesians 1:4-5, John 6:29, John 6:39, John 6:64-65, John 8:47, John 10:26, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 8, Romans 11:5-6 and many others, where it seems that you do not.