Free Will?

[McCree79]

I have been saying that for years. That is precisely why faith is not a gift given to the unregenerate. There is nowhere in the Bible which says faith is given to the unregenerate or the unsaved. Absurd!

Exactly..... I agree with that statement. The Holy spirit must change your disposition, so you can understand the word. Otherwise you cannot understand the word. Regeneration must proceed faith....even if just by nano seconds Reformed Theology teaches the same thing. It doesn't matter want Hunt says.

Regeneration+The word = faith= redemption.

 

[McCree79]

Why does faith have to be "generated"?
Why does faith have to be "made"?

Perhaps you should define "faith."
It appears you don't know what faith is.

That is twice you have levied a direct insult moderator. And you just lectured convicted1 on personal attacks. Rule #2 right????

Faith is belief. Faith has to generated by an inclination in some way. If it didn't the unregenerate would have it.

 

[DHK]

That is twice you have levied a direct insult moderator. And you just lectured convicted1 on personal attacks. Rule #2 right????+

I don't know what you are referring to.

Faith is belief. Faith has to generated by an inclination in some way. If it didn't the unregenerate would have it.

What do you mean "faith has to be generated?"
All people have faith.
It is the object of our faith that is important.
James said: "Even the demons believe and tremble." What did he mean by that? They already know who Christ is. It is head knowledge of course. And they tremble because they know their fate. They know that they will be cast into the bottomless pit and eventually the Lake of Fire.
But the object of their faith is Satan. They are still deceived, in spite of all that knowledge, that Satan (whom they have faith in) will conquer God in the end. He is the object of their faith.

Jesus said: Except you be as these little children you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was Christ talking about? He was speaking of their faith--trust, confidence. How does a child "generate, produce," etc. 'faith'?
The child has faith in his parents not in a stranger. He clings to his parents in a crowd of people. He knows that they will protect, guide, provide, etc. for him. But to a stranger he will not go. He cannot and will not trust a stranger in a strange place. He has faith in whom he knows--his parents.
Unless you have faith as these little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven--simple faith, unwavering faith. It is not generated. It just is simple confidence that a child has.

The faith is based on reason and is not blind. The child bases his faith because he "knows" his parents.
We base our faith on the gospel because we know it is true.
Other religions have blind faith. There is no basis in fact that if you become a suicide bomber you will go to paradise.
But the resurrection is a historical fact--a well attested historical fact. That is what the gospel is based on. It is not mysterious.

A man may hear the gospel for 25 years and never accept it. For 25 years he may reject it. But one day something happens that changes his mind. It ins't regeneration, but rather the conviction of the Holy Spirit--the same conviction that he has resisted many times before. This time he allows the Holy Spirit to work in his life and his is regenerated/saved.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

That is what faith is: being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

 

[McCree79]

I don't know what you are referring to.

What do you mean "faith has to be generated?"
All people have faith.
It is the object of our faith that is important.
James said: "Even the demons believe and tremble." What did he mean by that? They already know who Christ is. It is head knowledge of course. And they tremble because they know their fate. They know that they will be cast into the bottomless pit and eventually the Lake of Fire.
But the object of their faith is Satan. They are still deceived, in spite of all that knowledge, that Satan (whom they have faith in) will conquer God in the end. He is the object of their faith.

Jesus said: Except you be as these little children you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was Christ talking about? He was speaking of their faith--trust, confidence. How does a child "generate, produce," etc. 'faith'?
The child has faith in his parents not in a stranger. He clings to his parents in a crowd of people. He knows that they will protect, guide, provide, etc. for him. But to a stranger he will not go. He cannot and will not trust a stranger in a strange place. He has faith in whom he knows--his parents.
Unless you have faith as these little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven--simple faith, unwavering faith. It is not generated. It just is simple confidence that a child has.

The faith is based on reason and is not blind. The child bases his faith because he "knows" his parents.
We base our faith on the gospel because we know it is true.
Other religions have blind faith. There is no basis in fact that if you become a suicide bomber you will go to paradise.
But the resurrection is a historical fact--a well attested historical fact. That is what the gospel is based on. It is not mysterious.

A man may hear the gospel for 25 years and never accept it. For 25 years he may reject it. But one day something happens that changes his mind. It ins't regeneration, but rather the conviction of the Holy Spirit--the same conviction that he has resisted many times before. This time he allows the Holy Spirit to work in his life and his is regenerated/saved.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

That is what faith is: being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Believe from the demons had an origin, just like yours and mine has an origin. Something has to build up your faith, something has to cause you faith to enter your heart/ soul. It was not there before. Something must cause belief. We already established that faith cannot be given to the unregenerate. So where did it come from? We agree scripture. We agree the unregenerate cannot understand the word. So, how did we get faith?

 

[McCree79]

I don't know what you are referring to.

What do you mean "faith has to be generated?"
All people have faith.
It is the object of our faith that is important.
James said: "Even the demons believe and tremble." What did he mean by that? They already know who Christ is. It is head knowledge of course. And they tremble because they know their fate. They know that they will be cast into the bottomless pit and eventually the Lake of Fire.
But the object of their faith is Satan. They are still deceived, in spite of all that knowledge, that Satan (whom they have faith in) will conquer God in the end. He is the object of their faith.

Jesus said: Except you be as these little children you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was Christ talking about? He was speaking of their faith--trust, confidence. How does a child "generate, produce," etc. 'faith'?
The child has faith in his parents not in a stranger. He clings to his parents in a crowd of people. He knows that they will protect, guide, provide, etc. for him. But to a stranger he will not go. He cannot and will not trust a stranger in a strange place. He has faith in whom he knows--his parents.
Unless you have faith as these little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven--simple faith, unwavering faith. It is not generated. It just is simple confidence that a child has.

The faith is based on reason and is not blind. The child bases his faith because he "knows" his parents.
We base our faith on the gospel because we know it is true.
Other religions have blind faith. There is no basis in fact that if you become a suicide bomber you will go to paradise.
But the resurrection is a historical fact--a well attested historical fact. That is what the gospel is based on. It is not mysterious.

A man may hear the gospel for 25 years and never accept it. For 25 years he may reject it. But one day something happens that changes his mind. It ins't regeneration, but rather the conviction of the Holy Spirit--the same conviction that he has resisted many times before. This time he allows the Holy Spirit to work in his life and his is regenerated/saved.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

That is what faith is: being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Why does a child have faith in a parent. They understand that there parents take care of them protect them. Their experience with the parents generated faith in the parent.

 

[McCree79]

I don't know what you are referring to.

What do you mean "faith has to be generated?"
All people have faith.
It is the object of our faith that is important.
James said: "Even the demons believe and tremble." What did he mean by that? They already know who Christ is. It is head knowledge of course. And they tremble because they know their fate. They know that they will be cast into the bottomless pit and eventually the Lake of Fire.
But the object of their faith is Satan. They are still deceived, in spite of all that knowledge, that Satan (whom they have faith in) will conquer God in the end. He is the object of their faith.

Jesus said: Except you be as these little children you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was Christ talking about? He was speaking of their faith--trust, confidence. How does a child "generate, produce," etc. 'faith'?
The child has faith in his parents not in a stranger. He clings to his parents in a crowd of people. He knows that they will protect, guide, provide, etc. for him. But to a stranger he will not go. He cannot and will not trust a stranger in a strange place. He has faith in whom he knows--his parents.
Unless you have faith as these little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven--simple faith, unwavering faith. It is not generated. It just is simple confidence that a child has.

The faith is based on reason and is not blind. The child bases his faith because he "knows" his parents.
We base our faith on the gospel because we know it is true.
Other religions have blind faith. There is no basis in fact that if you become a suicide bomber you will go to paradise.
But the resurrection is a historical fact--a well attested historical fact. That is what the gospel is based on. It is not mysterious.

A man may hear the gospel for 25 years and never accept it. For 25 years he may reject it. But one day something happens that changes his mind. It ins't regeneration, but rather the conviction of the Holy Spirit--the same conviction that he has resisted many times before. This time he allows the Holy Spirit to work in his life and his is regenerated/saved.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

That is what faith is: being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

...if a child's faith did not have to be generated, built by experience. The child would trust anyone unconditionally.

 

[McCree79]

I don't know what you are referring to.

What do you mean "faith has to be generated?"
All people have faith.
It is the object of our faith that is important.
James said: "Even the demons believe and tremble." What did he mean by that? They already know who Christ is. It is head knowledge of course. And they tremble because they know their fate. They know that they will be cast into the bottomless pit and eventually the Lake of Fire.
But the object of their faith is Satan. They are still deceived, in spite of all that knowledge, that Satan (whom they have faith in) will conquer God in the end. He is the object of their faith.

Jesus said: Except you be as these little children you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was Christ talking about? He was speaking of their faith--trust, confidence. How does a child "generate, produce," etc. 'faith'?
The child has faith in his parents not in a stranger. He clings to his parents in a crowd of people. He knows that they will protect, guide, provide, etc. for him. But to a stranger he will not go. He cannot and will not trust a stranger in a strange place. He has faith in whom he knows--his parents.
Unless you have faith as these little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven--simple faith, unwavering faith. It is not generated. It just is simple confidence that a child has.

The faith is based on reason and is not blind. The child bases his faith because he "knows" his parents.
We base our faith on the gospel because we know it is true.
Other religions have blind faith. There is no basis in fact that if you become a suicide bomber you will go to paradise.
But the resurrection is a historical fact--a well attested historical fact. That is what the gospel is based on. It is not mysterious.

A man may hear the gospel for 25 years and never accept it. For 25 years he may reject it. But one day something happens that changes his mind. It ins't regeneration, but rather the conviction of the Holy Spirit--the same conviction that he has resisted many times before. This time he allows the Holy Spirit to work in his life and his is regenerated/saved.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

That is what faith is: being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Our faith is built from trust the word of Christ, that on the regenerate man can understand

 

[McCree79]

Exactly..... I agree with that statement. The Holy spirit must change your disposition, so you can understand the word. Otherwise you cannot understand the word. Regeneration must proceed faith....even if just by nano seconds Reformed Theology teaches the same thing. It doesn't matter want Hunt says.

Regeneration+The word = faith= redemption.

I have a prediction for you DHK. You are so close based on you statement her of faith is not/cannot be given to the unregenerate man....that is awful close to total depravity. The day will come when you embrace reformed theology. Not the what your currently believe Calvinism is, but what reformed theology really is. I will be glad to post a link for you to receive a free book from R.C. Sproul "what is reformed theology". It is nothing of what you believe it is. Shipping is free as well. Free book....delivered to you.

 

[DHK]

I have a prediction for you DHK. You are so close based on you statement her of faith is not/cannot be given to the unregenerate man....that is awful close to total depravity. The day will come when you embrace reformed theology. Not the what your currently believe Calvinism is, but what reformed theology really is. I will be glad to post a link for you to receive a free book from R.C. Sproul "what is reformed theology". It is nothing of what you believe it is. Shipping is free as well. Free book....delivered to you.

I have to stick to scripture.
I will quote it as many times as I have to.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
If a person is going to get regenerated/saved, he needs to hear the Word first from which he will receive the faith to be regenerated/saved.
The Word comes first. Faith in the Word comes second; after that regeneration and salvation.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--Regeneration does not take place in the absence of the Word of God. In fact, the Word of God is absolutely necessary if one is to be born again.
--We are born again...by the Word of God. Clear isn't it.

James 1:18
(KJV) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
(ISV) In accordance with his will he made us his children by the word of truth, so that we might become the most important of his creatures.

We are "born" or "made his children" by the word of truth, or the Word of God.

Faith in the Word of God must come first. Regeneration cannot come without faith. This is nowhere taught in the Scripture. Where does the Scripture teach that regeneration produces faith?

 

[convicted1]

Willis,

No worries. I will let you on to something I have been doing for quite a while now on posts that I think I may want to hold on to:

How can I do this? Seriously!!

 

[convicted1]

Please don't post false accusations. This post is disgraceful and far greater attack than the few words that I posted which were against Calvinism in general.
You have: one, attacked me personally--definitely against the rules.
and, secondly, attacked me as a moderator in this post, against the rules again.

You have stepped way over the line. I simply said something to the effect that this was an inconsistency of Calvinism--hardly an infraction. Reformed pointed out that it was the manner in which I said it that made it offensive. It wasn't an attack on anyone as this post is.

A Brother on here has sent me PM's more than once exposing you doing this to his posts. You overstep your authority on here. You've closed MANY threads after getting in the last word. It's shameful they keep you as a mod.

 

[convicted1]

I have to stick to scripture.
I will quote it as many times as I have to.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
If a person is going to get regenerated/saved, he needs to hear the Word first from which he will receive the faith to be regenerated/saved.
The Word comes first. Faith in the Word comes second; after that regeneration and salvation.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--Regeneration does not take place in the absence of the Word of God. In fact, the Word of God is absolutely necessary if one is to be born again.
--We are born again...by the Word of God. Clear isn't it.

James 1:18
(KJV) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
(ISV) In accordance with his will he made us his children by the word of truth, so that we might become the most important of his creatures.

We are "born" or "made his children" by the word of truth, or the Word of God.

Faith in the Word of God must come first. Regeneration cannot come without faith. This is nowhere taught in the Scripture. Where does the Scripture teach that regeneration produces faith?

And what if that person's deaf? If faith comes by hearing the word of God...and I am not denying it, but if someone's deaf, then how can they have faith in that which can't be heard?

 

[McCree79]

I have to stick to scripture.
I will quote it as many times as I have to.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
If a person is going to get regenerated/saved, he needs to hear the Word first from which he will receive the faith to be regenerated/saved.
The Word comes first. Faith in the Word comes second; after that regeneration and salvation.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--Regeneration does not take place in the absence of the Word of God. In fact, the Word of God is absolutely necessary if one is to be born again.
--We are born again...by the Word of God. Clear isn't it.

James 1:18
(KJV) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
(ISV) In accordance with his will he made us his children by the word of truth, so that we might become the most important of his creatures.

We are "born" or "made his children" by the word of truth, or the Word of God.

Faith in the Word of God must come first. Regeneration cannot come without faith. This is nowhere taught in the Scripture. Where does the Scripture teach that regeneration produces faith?

You said earlier that faith is not given to the unregenerate man. No you say, he must have faith before regeneration. That would mean no one ever is saved

 

[McCree79]

You said earlier that faith is not given to the unregenerate man. No you say, he must have faith before regeneration. That would mean no one ever is saved

You next reply will be that faith has came by you hearing the word.... That is was not worked in you or given to you. That you manifested your own faith in scripture. Which brings us back to, your faith is of works. You did it. You choose to believe on your own, under your own power. Faith by works.

 

[DHK]

You next reply will be that faith has came by you hearing the word.... That is was not worked in you or given to you. That you manifested your own faith in scripture. Which brings us back to, your faith is of works. You did it. You choose to believe on your own, under your own power. Faith by works.

For by grace are you saved through faith.
Faith, like grace, are not works.
Both are contrasted to works and are held in opposition to works.

We are saved by grace. But you don't consider grace a work.
We are also saved by faith. So it is not a work either.

 

[DHK]

And what if that person's deaf? If faith comes by hearing the word of God...and I am not denying it, but if someone's deaf, then how can they have faith in that which can't be heard?

There are many ways of hearing, and I think you know that.
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the firmament showeth forth his handiwork...Day unto day he utterth knowledge.

Is the knowledge actually "uttered" and then "heard" by the heavens and those looking at them?

Does your church have a deaf ministry? How do the deaf "hear" the Word?

How did Hannah pray? Audibly or not?

 

[DHK]

A Brother on here has sent me PM's more than once exposing you doing this to his posts. You overstep your authority on here. You've closed MANY threads after getting in the last word. It's shameful they keep you as a mod.

So you accept as valid and true the accusations of a disgruntled poster instead of coming to the source of the one who is accused, which you should have done in the first place according to Matthew 18.
If you have ought against your brother go to him...not listen to gossip.

For the record. I am not the one that "always" closes the threads, and no one here can know who actually does it and unless the moderator says he is doing so. Sometimes someone does it when he sees the thread has gone too far astray, or because of a complaint, or for one of a great variety of reasons.
Assumptions are not necessarily the truth.

Therefore "looks or appearances" can be deceiving.
If you have something of a personal nature then why don't you pm me instead of airing things out in public?

 

[McCree79]

For by grace are you saved through faith.
Faith, like grace, are not works.
Both are contrasted to works and are held in opposition to works.

We are saved by grace. But you don't consider grace a work.
We are also saved by faith. So it is not a work either.

Grace by definition is free.
When you generate your own faith....that is a work. I don't consider faith a work....because it is also given.

But your version of faith comes from within ones self. When I have faith in my wife to not cheat on me it is because her character has communicated loyalty and trust to me. I formed that faith in her by reasonable evaluation. I applied work into that faith. Faith in God cannot be generated before regeneration, because we can not comprehend the word of Christ. We cannot have faith in something we cannot understand.

 

[McCree79]

There are many ways of hearing, and I think you know that.
"The heavens declare the glory of God;

......I believe convicted1 just trapped you in your own words.

Perhaps the example of Cornelius fails into this category???? I doubt it, but you left room for argument. Hearing God from the heavens.....nature does declare God's work for no man is without knowledge of God. ...... but I won't speculate anymore on where convicted1 is going with that.

 

[convicted1]

There are many ways of hearing, and I think you know that.
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the firmament showeth forth his handiwork...Day unto day he utterth knowledge.

Is the knowledge actually "uttered" and then "heard" by the heavens and those looking at them?

Does your church have a deaf ministry? How do the deaf "hear" the Word?

How did Hannah pray? Audibly or not?

You kept stating Rom. 10:17 as if we believe otherwise. Now, does faith come from God or the man preaching it?