Freemasonry vs. Christianity

[frewtloop]

At our Homecoming in my Lodge alot of the members stood up and shared their testimony on how they came to know Christ as their savior.

Praise God! So much for "confusion in the lodge."

Jesus is not found in the lodge, God did not ordain and establish the lodge, the church is His body reaching the world.

Amen to that, but have you forgotten that His church is not formed by four walls and a steeple? The true church is not the church you speak of in that way. And far more Masons than you realize belong to that True Church.

The Boy Scouts and AA do not hold themselves out as religious organizations (also AA does not require a belief in any supreme being -- 'Higher Power" can be your "higher" self, ideals, or whatever).

Boy Scouts do--"On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country..." Thus reads the oath, whether you choose to call it such or not--done with the hand raised in the Scout salute, making solemn promise to God.

Freemasonry does teach religious doctrines. The posts on previous Freemasonry threads had abundant quotes from Freemasonry materials and from links, that prove this.

What was actually there was a bunch of material quoted from Masonic sources, with abundant misinterpretations.

Joseph Smith was a Mason and he incorporated many of the Masonic rituals into the Mormon church. . . Gerald Gardner, the founder of modern Wicca, was a Mason as well and he incorporated or closely imitated a lot of the Masonic rituals into Wicca rituals. So we end up with Masonic rituals in Mormonism and Wicca that are similar. That's pretty wild.

That's wild, all right. That's like Jim Jones, who started from within the Christian Church--and look where he wound up. So did Charles Taze Russell, and William Miller, and Mary Baker Eddy, and William Branham, etc. etc. So we end up with Christian rituals in Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventism, Christian Science, and the Branhamites that are similar. That's where your suggestion takes us, when applied in principle. And that's beyond wild.

TheWorm

 

[Bro Tony]

Amen to that, but have you forgotten that His church is not formed by four walls and a steeple? The true church is not the church you speak of in that way. And far more Masons than you realize belong to that True Church.

The Worm has returned. Are we who we say we are this time, or is this going to be another round of confusion and deceit.

Now to your post as to the portion I wrote, quoted above. I am well aware of what the Church is and that it does not consist of a building and four walls. All true belivers are the Church. Our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Paul writes, 2 Corinthians 6: 14-17--"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols/ For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: ' I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God. And they shall be My people'. Therefore Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean and I will receive you."

As far as your statement that I might be surprized at the number of masons in the true Church. I have never said that a mason cannot be a Christian, it is apparent that Christians, at least professing Christians can be deceived. But you know what mr worm, I genuinely hope I the one that is surprized and not you and your fellow masons.

Come out from among them and cease touching the unclean thing.

Bro Tony

 

[Marcia]

Boy Scouts do--"On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country..." Thus reads the oath, whether you choose to call it such or not--done with the hand raised in the Scout salute, making solemn promise to God.

The Worm has (re)turned!

The Boy Scouts do not occupy themselves with spiritiual teachings as the Masons do. I quoted from masonic books I have before to show this and there were other quotes. I am guessing you will deny this but I am not up for the same ol' song and dance routine as before. Plenty of stuff was posted that was accurate and was not misinterpreted, as you say it was.

 

[O.F.F.]

The Worm has returned. Are we who we say we are this time, or is this going to be another round of confusion and deceit.

He/She is not going to stop the deceit. But at least now everyone knows who the "slimy" Worm is and/or is not. With no more credibility to stand on, I wish The Worm would simply leave us alone and crawl back where she/he came from.

If she is the Christian woman she claims to be, why would she call herself a slimy worm?

O.F.F.

 

[Ben W]

Here is another one to thow into the mix,

Who is the Great Archiect of the Universe that John Calvin ascribed the term to? Is it God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit?

Is it all three for the Trinitarian believer?

 

[Jacob Webber]

(True but you did not bond yourself to your company. you did not swear and oath to them. You do not call nonbelievers at your work brother.)

Of Course I have to bond myself to my company everyone who has ever worked has to do so. I have never beem to a job and not have to sign a piece of paper saying that I will not reviel any of the secrets of this company to any company I may work for afterward. And Yes I do call people I work with Brother because were are brothers working for a common goal to get the product out the door. Anytime I have worked for someone I have had to sign some pice of paper stating I would not tell anyone about the materials or pruduction there of in which they are made.


Marcia
AA does require a belief in a Supreme Being. In the 10 steps you have to hold your self accountable to a Supreme Being.

BenW
(Who is the Great Archiect of the Universe that John Calvin ascribed the term to? Is it God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit?

Is it all three for the Trinitarian believer?)

God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity as mention in Freemasonry according to Gary Leazer.

 

[Bro Tony]

Of Course I have to bond myself to my company everyone who has ever worked has to do so. I have never beem to a job and not have to sign a piece of paper saying that I will not reviel any of the secrets of this company to any company I may work for afterward. And Yes I do call people I work with Brother because were are brothers working for a common goal to get the product out the door. Anytime I have worked for someone I have had to sign some pice of paper stating I would not tell anyone about the materials or pruduction there of in which they are made.

Jacob,

Now you are being coy. You very well know what I am talking about. I have grown to respect you a brother, I don't agree with you, but I do have respect for you that you seem to honestly believe in what you believe in. Please do not now begin to play semantics. When I say bond yourself you know what I am talking about. If you are going to go into word games we cannot have a dialouge.

Bro Tony

BTW--Ben W---I'm not to impress with what Calvin has to say. I am really bothered by many of the things he did to fellow Christians who did not see things his way. So personally I won't be one who deals with your question. Blessing BT

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
Anytime I say I will do something I bind myself to it as my word whether it be by a promise or piece of paper it is the same. That I will abide by what ever it is I am agreeing to. Just as I promised to not reveal the the signs of Freemasonry to anyone but a Freemason I promised not to reveal any secrets of my company to anyone but those within the company. It is all taken under God whether I say it verbally or not.

 

[frewtloop]

Hi, Mike Gentry, or O.F.F., or Arizona Mason, or whatever other names you have used, I invite you to continue posting to the topic which you have started here, and give up the fruitless approach of personal attack. You've already PM'ed your guess as to my identity, and I have confirmed it back to you by email per your request. Why you still have a problem with any of it is a mystery. But it is no mystery that from this point, anything of an attacking and/or personal nature from you will simply be ignored, and the post treated by me as though it never appeared.

No, the real mystery is, how someone can be so critical and condemning and be so blind as to consider such behavior Christian. Not that I doubt that you are Christian, just that your actions so far have been IMO questionable.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

Agreeing to do something is biblical. It is called letting your yes be yes and your no be no. It is called integrity, and not that it matters in the big scheme of things, but it is one of the attributes that I hold in high esteem. But the Bible says that binding yourself by an oath is unbiblical and comes from the evil one.
Read Matthew 5: 33-37, don't try to spiritualize it just let Jesus say what He says.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Oath

(A solemn appeal to God, permitted on fitting occasions #De 6:13 #Jer 4:2 in various forms #Ge 16:5 2Sa 12:5 Ru 1:17 Ho 4:15 #Ro 1:9 and taken in different ways #Ge 14:22 24:2 2Ch 6:22 God is represented as taking an oath #Heb 6:16-18 so also Paul #Ro 9:1 Ga 1:20 Php 1:8 The precept, "Swear not at all," refers probably to ordinary conversation between man and man #Mt 5:34,37 But if the words are taken as referring to oaths, then their intention may have been to show "that the proper state of Christians is to require no oaths; that when evil is expelled from among them every yea and nay will be as decisive as an oath, every promise as binding as a vow.")

What about the Vow of Paul when He shaved His Head was this a sin. Or does Matt 5:34,37 mean that when you are with fellow believer you word is as simple as yes or no. But in the presents of others a promise is ok.

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Jude:
I'm not sure what I think of Freemasonry, since many of it's critics are wrong about other things. That said, I do wonder WHY any Christian man would join ANY fraternal organization, and take time away from his local church.

That is an interesting question, and I suppose it depends on the view that the Christian takes, There are quite a number of these organisations, Rotary, Elks, Jaycees, Lions and various others if I stop to think about them, why would any christian want to be in a community group that is not organised by the church?

I think that the answer could be found in one of your recent polls about how do visitors come to your church? The predominant answer being that being invited by congregation members. Yet how many Christians have only other christians as friends? People get saved and begin to mix in Christian circles, and by natural attrition all of their new friends are Christians, sure we all have non christian work friends, but I am focusing on people that are personal friends.

Yet if we all went out and joined Lions or similar, we would be mixing with non christian people, and have the opportunity to build friendships and relationships with people that do not know Jesus Christ. An opportunity to be the shining light in a darkened world.

I would like to see Christians dominate these organisations for that very reason, when we are cut off from non christians we lose opportunities for evangalism. These clubs might have a no witnessing rule at the club, yet that does not make a difference for friends that you make there invited to your own house. By building these friendships and relationships we have every opportunity to build the body of Christ. Lets face it, why do non christians join clubs anyway? usually because they are looking for something. We have what the are looking for, - Jesus Christ.

 

[Jacob Webber]

This is from a Masonic Bible which is a KJV Bible with a Square and Compass on the Front.

Creation: Freemasonry recognizes Jehovah God as the creator of all things, both material and spritual and it accepts the account of creation given in the Book of Genesis and confirmed by other Scriptures. To a Mason the earth and the heavens declare the glory of God


Lion of the Tribe of Judah: In the Tribal benediction pronounced upon Judah, The Lion's whelp is used emblematically of strength; hence the ensign on the banner of Judah was a Lion. The Phrase in the Masonic Ritual, "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah," is messianic and refers to Christ, The anointed of God and royal head of God's Kingdom.


Know lets go back to what was said about the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.

(Faith in the Merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah is how one gains access to the Clestial Lodge above.)

So it seems that Freemaosnry teaches that Faith in the Merits of Jesus Christ is how one gains access to the Clestial Lodge (Heaven) above.

 

[Bro Tony]

Oath

(A solemn appeal to God, permitted on fitting occasions #De 6:13 #Jer 4:2 in various forms #Ge 16:5 2Sa 12:5 Ru 1:17 Ho 4:15 #Ro 1:9 and taken in different ways #Ge 14:22 24:2 2Ch 6:22 God is represented as taking an oath #Heb 6:16-18 so also Paul #Ro 9:1 Ga 1:20 Php 1:8 The precept, "Swear not at all," refers probably to ordinary conversation between man and man #Mt 5:34,37 But if the words are taken as referring to oaths, then their intention may have been to show "that the proper state of Christians is to require no oaths; that when evil is expelled from among them every yea and nay will be as decisive as an oath, every promise as binding as a vow.")

Jacob,

Did this too come out of the preface of your masonic Bible? I would prefer to let Jesus' words speak for themselves. I don't swear and oath when having to serve in court. I did not swear an oath when I joined the army.

Jesus' words are so clear, I can't see how you can miss them. In Matthew 7: 36, He says, "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black." You know that when you stated your oath you did the very thing that Jesus forbids. I personally don't know how you can justify this.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

No it came from Eastons Bible Dictionary under Oath or Swear. Seems "Swear not" could mean not to threaten any one with an Oath. Or it means not to take Oath that you can not pay. When taking an Oath to God you are asking God to hold you accountable. Not yourself because you do not own yourself, heaven ot the Earth.

But what of the Vow Paul took was it evil when He shaved His head as an outward mark of His vow.

You have never put your hand on the Bible in courst and swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God. And in the Army you did not pledge to protect the constitution. And I do not know if you are married but did you take a vow to love, honor and protect your wife.

(Jesus' words are so clear, I can't see how you can miss them. In Matthew 7: 36, He says, "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black." You know that when you stated your oath you did the very thing that Jesus forbids. I personally don't know how you can justify this)

Than I guess I am guilty for vowing to love my wife for the rest of my life and be fatful to her and only her.
I am guilty of Pledging my allegance to the Flag of the Unitied States of America
I am Guilty of holding myself to a promise not to release any of the secrets of my company to anyone but those in it.

But what of the following:
Paslm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:20God took an oath that Christ would always be a priest, but he never did this for any other priest. 21Only to Jesus did he say,

"The Lord has taken an oath
and will not break his vow:
`You are a priest forever.' "[4]
22Because of God's oath, it is Jesus who guarantees the effectiveness of this better covenant.

Matt 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

 

[Bro Tony]

You have never put your hand on the Bible in courst and swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God. And in the Army you did not pledge to protect the constitution. And I do not know if you are married but did you take a vow to love, honor and protect your wife.

No I have never put my hand on the Bible and swore to tell the truth. I simply stated that I would speak the truth (that is allowed in our court system). I did affirm that I would support and protect the constitution of the US. I did not swear I would, I just said I would. This also is allowed by the Armed Forces. I did not swear an oath, much less a bloody one, when I committed myself to my beautiful wife. I said I would and I will. I did not swear an oath at all, I let my yes be yes and my no be no. Jesus said, not me, He said, "anything more is of the evil one."

I must confess I am ignorant as to your reference to Paul. Please enlighten me.

Thanks,

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

(Act 18:18 ¶ And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.)

Paul shaved His head because of His vow.

Bro Tony what about the other Scripture I posted were it states God took an Oath.

22Because of God's oath , it is Jesus who guarantees the effectiveness of this better covenant.


And the so called Bloody oath is of protection. That you are willing to keep others safe even at the tourture of your life to death.

It is no differnt that a marriage vow to Love, honor and protect your wife even at the cost of your own. If you conceder the Masonic Oath as a Bloody one than this one is the same and just as Bloody becuase to protect others it may cost you your life.

And you did not say wether you said the Pledge of the USA.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

Thanks for the reference with Paul. You and I are in complete disagreement of terms. I do not consider a vow, (which is a promise) the same as swearing to something. Jesus forbids us to swear to anything,(that is to place what is not ours on the line) that is why He said not be heaven or the earth or even the hair on your head. They are not yours. That kind of swearing is different than making a commitment to protect, as you said, or even be willing to lay down you life. The point is to just say it and mean it without having to swear by something else. For that according to Jesus is evil.

God when He speaks always speaks truth and He can offer anything He wants in His promises because He possess all.

It is no differnt that a marriage vow to Love, honor and protect your wife even at the cost of your own. If you conceder the Masonic Oath as a Bloody one than this one is the same and just as Bloody becuase to protect others it may cost you your life.

The problem of your view is that you don't want to see that you have done more than just make a commitment to do what you have said. Again, I tell you that it was Jesus who forbade us from swearing by anything. Your word as a Christian man should be good enough. Jesus said anything more than your word is evil.

Yes I do say the pledge to the flag. But again I do not swear any oath to it.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Vow: To promise solemnly; pledge

Pledge: A solemn binding promise to do, give, or refrain from doing something:

Oath: 1:A solemn, formal declaration or promise to fulfill a pledge, often calling on God, a god, or a sacred object as witness.
2:Something declared or promised

Swear: To make a solemn declaration, invoking a deity or a sacred person or thing, in confirmation of and witness to the honesty or truth of such a declaration.
2:To make a solemn promise; vow

Promise: A declaration assuring that one will or will not do something; a vow


According to the dictionary they seem to mean the same thing that it affirms you will do what you say. So a Pledge is the same as an Oath, Vow, Promise or Swear. So to sencerly Promise and Solemnly swear is not differnt than saying I deeply Pledge as God as my witness.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

Are you reading what you wrote? Oath and Swear by the definition that you wrote are completely different than vow or pledge.

Clearly Jesus' command to refrain from swearing to anything the reason can be seen in your definition of Swear-

"to invoke a deity or a sacred person or thing, in confirmation of and witness to the honesty of truth of such a declaration"

Jesus said don't do it. He called it evil. For me at least that settles it.

The above do not have the same defintions if they did they would all only have the same five words found in the first definition.