Freemasonry vs. Christianity

[Jacob Webber]

Blackbird

That is my point. The name you say you are saved by will not help you wether it be Jesus, Yeshua, Isa, Joshua, Christ it is only a name with out the the Son of God behind it. Just as Allah, God, Gott, Lord, Jehovah, YHWH all of these are the names given to the One True God YHWH, But if you do not recognize them in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity they are only names.

 

[Bro Tony]

Allah is not a specific name for the god of Islam. YHWH is the specific name they give to the god of Islam.

Jacob,

Now you to prove your point are either mis-informed or you mis-spoke. YHWH is not the name of the god of Islam. YHWH is the English version of the name for God in the Hebrew, we some times see it written in the English as Jehovah or Yahweh. It is Hebrew and it is not the name for God used in the Koran or by the Islamic people. Then Elohim is another Hebrew name for God, it is the "plural-singlar" of El and speaks of the three-fold person of the eternal God. Both are names for God in the Hebrew text. Neither one has anything to do with Islam.

In the Scripture we are given the names of God and they tell us who He is. His name is not Allah. And Allah is the specific name of God in Islam, I can't believe you are denying that. We are not talking about merely a language matter, but a god who is identified by the Koran as the moon god and as a false god who has nothing to do with God. Would you go to a group of satanist who believe satan is god and use the name satan or lucifer for God because that is the name they are familiar with? I would hope not! You would introduce them to the real God, and you would use His Name because that is who He is.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
The word allah is arabic and it coms from the word elohim. Both mean the same thing. Both the word allah and elohim are used by Muslims and Jews to represent the God of Abraham YHWH. As it is by Jews and Arabic Christians both use the term Allah or Elohim to represent the God of Abraham YHWH except in their case it is the True because it is God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity.

Simply put Christian Arabs who call YHWH, Allah. Are simply saying God in refrence to YHWH in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

You are all over the board. One time you say YHWH is the Islamic name for God, now it is Elohim and Allah. Which is it. It seems names do mean something. Again, I have never heard or read any Jewish person using Allah in reference to God. I really don't think you have either for they would not do it.

Bro Tony

 

[Eladar]

Do you believe these same poor are saved apart from faith in Jesus?

That all depends on how you define faith in Jesus Christ. According to Romans 2, it isn't those who know the law that are saved, but those who practice the law. Romans also tells us that Jesus' sacrifice is what saves those who lived before Jesus' sacrifice.

Do you believe it is alright for them to put their trust in Allah and we assume they are talking about Jesus?

Not if it is the Allah found in the Koran. If it is the 'God' they find in the Bible, then yes.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
Ley me say it again. Muslims say they're god is the God of Abraham, YHWH. But they hold His name so sacried that the will not say it they use the word Allah (God in Arabic).

Now Jews do the same thing They say YHWH is the God of Abraham. They hold His name so sacried they are not allowed to say it exept on special occasions. They say Elohim is the God of Abraham, YHWH.

Now Jews that speak Arabic will call God Allah because it is the same as the word Elohim. Just as the example you used earlier with your name one way in english another in spanish both represent you. The same alppys to Elohim and Allah they both are a generic word for God representing YHWH the God of Abraham.

Bro Tony
How would you tell an Arabic speaking person about God's son if you can not say god in they're laungage. You will being saying God (In English) had a son who died on the cross. They will not now what you are talking about because they do not speak English. But if you say Allah has a Son Isa who did on the Cross for your sins than they would know that you are speaking about YHWH and Jesus as His Son.

 

[blackbird]

Jacob says, "Muslims say their god is the God of Abraham."

Muslims are liars! Muslims will tell you, "Sure! Abraham is our father---through the line of Ishmael!"------But see??? God did not recognize Ishmael as Abraham's son! God told Abraham to take his only son __________ (fill in blank) and sacrifice at "the place I will show you"

Now, Muslims can be saved---but they will be saved just like you and me----through adoption as per the Bible only through God's only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[Bro Tony]

Ley me say it again. Muslims say they're god is the God of Abraham, YHWH. But they hold His name so sacried that the will not say it they use the word Allah (God in Arabic).

Simply not true. You are attributing to the Muslim the same as to the Jew. The god of the Muslim is not the God of the Bible. Muslims do not worship God. That Arab Christians do worship the one true God is not the issue. You are clouding the issue by making statements that Muslims worship the same God as do Christians and Jews. They don't.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

Bro Tony
How would you tell an Arabic speaking person about God's son if you can not say god in they're laungage. You will being saying God (In English) had a son who died on the cross. They will not now what you are talking about because they do not speak English. But if you say Allah has a Son Isa who did on the Cross for your sins than they would know that you are speaking about YHWH and Jesus as His Son.

You continue to miss my point the word Allah is not simply the Arabic name for God. He is a specific god found in the Koran. I would use translated terms that would not confuse the Muslim I am trying to reach.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

Not if it is the Allah found in the Koran. If it is the 'God' they find in the Bible, then yes.
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Eladar,

this is my point. Allah is not just another name or a language translation of the God of the Bible. Allah is found in the Koran, he is not found in the Bible.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony

What would those terms be.

Muslims do not see Allah as a Moon god, they see Allah as YHWH the God of Abraham.

 

[Bro Tony]

Muslims do not see Allah as a Moon god, they see Allah as YHWH the God of Abraham.
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Are you serious. Muslim is a religion that does not believe in the God of the Bible. The Islamic religion is based in the Koran, not the Bible. They don't even use the Bible. The Islamic religion is not even as old as Christianity and is not built upon the the OT at all. Again, if you asked an Islamic person to tell you about Allah, he would find his information from the Koran not the Bible, and the two are not and never will be the same.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

http://www.faizani.com/articles/names.html

Jacob,

On this Islamic sight there are 99 names given for god in their faith. They would agree with you concerning using Allah as the name for God. But, what again must clearly be understood is that the muslims are not believers in the one true God. This sight shows that from the Koran, not the Bible, they have their understanding of who god is, and he is clearly not the God of the Bible.

"Al" would be similar in Arabic as "El" in the Hebrew. After "Al" the muslim would put a descriptive word. These names and the understanding of these names come from a false book and religion. In order to reach the Arabic people we must clearly show the difference between their Allah and the biblical God.

Bro Tony

 

[Eladar]

Allah is not just another name or a language translation of the God of the Bible. Allah is found in the Koran, he is not found in the Bible.

Are you sure that there is another name for 'God' in those countries? I'm assuming it is Arabic.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
Muslims say Abrahams God YHWH is the one True God. But that is about all they have right about Him. They worship YHWH in name only not in Truth of the Trinity so it does them no good. If you can explain to them that Allah(YHWH)the God of Abraham has a Son Isa who did on the Cross for they're sins then you have used something common to them to build on.

 

[Bro Tony]

Just to close this portion of the thread out. I would like to answer Jacob and Eladar's question as best I can. If I had the opportunity to speak to an Islamic person, I would try to approach it the way Paul did to the Greeks on Mars Hill. They worship an unknown god in ignorance. The muslims believe their god, Allah, is the one true god. They are wrong, I would share with them how Allah and the God of the Bible are different and ask them to consider believing in Him. But please don't insinuate that the Allah of the Muslim (Islamic) religion is one and the same as the God of the Bible.

This horse has been beat to death, I am ready to move on to other subjects. I appreciate all the input, I have learn somethings thru the discourse.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
Would you form a group to help others using Jesus's example and teachings of Brotherly Love and allow others to join thou they are not christian.

 

[Bro Tony]

Would you form a group to help others using Jesus's example and teachings of Brotherly Love and allow others to join thou they are not christian.

Would I allow, invite, encourage others to come to such a group meeting. You bet, I do it every week at least six times a week. I do this as the pastor of my church. Everyone is welcome, I will gladly share biblical truth with anybody. But, you threw in a word I don't want to pass by, that is the word join. Do you mean join as in being there, or do you mean join as in say like joining a church. Anyone is encourage to join us as we search for the truth, but they can only join (become one of the Body) by receiving Jesus as their personal Savior. All are welcome to the truth.

I hope that answers the question. If not I will need you to give me more info so I can fully answer.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

What I mean is like the Boy Scouts. Showing good will toward others, Helping we able, feeding the hungry. Would you join a group like this that uses the teachings of Christ and Gods word to promote Brotherly Love or would you allow a non Christian to join this group with you. This would not be a church.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Jacob Webber:
What I mean is like the Boy Scouts. Showing good will toward others, Helping we able, feeding the hungry. Would you join a group like this that uses the teachings of Christ and Gods word to promote Brotherly Love or would you allow a non Christian to join this group with you. This would not be a church.

I know you are asking Bro Tony, but this is my answer:

If a group were based on the teachings of Christ to promote what He taught, no I would not let an unbeliever join. For one thing, practicing what Jesus taught does an unbeliever little good and might mislead him into thinking he is a Christian or is following Christ by his works. This would be deceptive and misleading.

One must be IN Christ by faith for any works he does to be glorifying to God. But the main reason I would not do it as that it would mislead or look like I was endorsing a religion of works.