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Freewill towards salvation is not Scriptural.

Benoni

Member
Site Supporter
"Basic salvation"?

So if saved, are you saying I should be aspiring to a different level of salvation?

Most of us can't get past simple salvation; that's why the apostle Paul cut it down to its most simplistic form in Romans 10:9-13.

There is nothing simple about our heavenly Father unless all you are is a servant.

God is a balanced God; both good and evil God totally controls; there is nothing that happens outside His Sovereign will.

What most called saved is justification by faith, not full salvation. Salvation as you most call it is more like justification of your faith a good example would be the thief on the cross.

Heb 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;
and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (KJV)

Amplified Bible says full salvation

Amplified Bible (AMP) Heb. 9: 28
Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are [eagerly, constantly, and patiently] waiting for and expecting Him.


Philippians 3:13-15 (King James Version)

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

.

In my Fathers house are many mansions”; or Greek abiding place. All people have a different abiding place then you. Our place is not to condemn that abiding place but to seek, ask and knock to know God in a deeper abiding place that I am now.
 

Benoni

Member
Site Supporter
1 Corinthians 15:

24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[Psalm 8:6] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Revelation 4:
10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
11"You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being."

The elect are the messengers God uses to reach the great multitude. How can you reach the dead being dead without the great physician who can raise the dead. When we are placed under the feet of Jesus then He will be under God and God will rule and reign.

Of course we always Give god the glory.
 

dan p

New Member
Dare ??

I understand why you feal this way but you are wrong. The tremendous error in those who dare believe that Jesus came to damn not save. That his precious blood he shed on Calvary did not totally reverse the sin of Adam. I pointed out the priesthood of God earlier in this thread and no one dare address it.

Why?

Are not these verses not scriptural or are we picking and choosing parts of God's Word to promote what we believe and not what God's Word says/

I believe there are two points of view in the Bible. There is the letter that killeth. Then there is the logos, the spiritual hidden Word that is divine.

Hi Benoni , and I have seen your post on many sites and I have a post on Col 1:20 and it revealed that all Universal Reconciliationist is heresy and it is cystal clear why the Greek text has TA PANTA and Not just Panta by itself .
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
There is nothing simple about our heavenly Father unless all you are is a servant.

God is a balanced God; both good and evil God totally controls; there is nothing that happens outside His Sovereign will.

What most called saved is justification by faith, not full salvation. Salvation as you most call it is more like justification of your faith a good example would be the thief on the cross.
And what about the other thief on the cross who repented not, but cursed Christ to his face, and railed on him like others. How was he justified?
In my Fathers house are many mansions”; or Greek abiding place. All people have a different abiding place then you. Our place is not to condemn that abiding place but to seek, ask and knock to know God in a deeper abiding place that I am now.
And one of those mansions will be for Hitler and another for Stalin, and even one for Osama ben Laden, right? How did they earn their mansions?
 

Benoni

Member
Site Supporter
Hi Benoni , and I have seen your post on many sites and I have a post on Col 1:20 and it revealed that all Universal Reconciliationist is heresy and it is cystal clear why the Greek text has TA PANTA and Not just Panta by itself .

I do not base my belief on one verse.
 

Benoni

Member
Site Supporter
And what about the other thief on the cross who repented not, but cursed Christ to his face, and railed on him like others. How was he justified?

And one of those mansions will be for Hitler and another for Stalin, and even one for Osama ben Laden, right? How did they earn their mansions?

Yes to both questions. Oh sure they will go thought the lake of divine purging but in the end.

Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." When? When every heart is made willing! There is no connotation or undertone here of God forcing these to just mouth words. Instead there is the implication that it is done in a heartfelt, even worshipful attitude. They have been made willing.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Yes to both questions. Oh sure they will go thought the lake of divine purging but in the end.

Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." When? When every heart is made willing! There is no connotation or undertone here of God forcing these to just mouth words. Instead there is the implication that it is done in a heartfelt, even worshipful attitude. They have been made willing.
There is nothing to suggest that the fire is not literal.
There is nothing to suggest that any that enter that fire will ever come out.
In fact just the opposite is true:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes to both questions. Oh sure they will go thought the lake of divine purging but in the end.

Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." When? When every heart is made willing! There is no connotation or undertone here of God forcing these to just mouth words. Instead there is the implication that it is done in a heartfelt, even worshipful attitude. They have been made willing.

Yet when they (the unsaved) DO confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, what will He do? "Depart from me. I never knew you." Jesus never knew them.
 

Benoni

Member
Site Supporter
This is so wrong.

Explain to me what brimestone is?

Was not John in spirit on the Lord’s day; does it say anywhere in the Book of Revelation that John was seeing literal things in any since of the word. No he was in spirit on the Lord's day; The Book of revelation is the most spiritual book in the whole Bible; but you have to carnalize it to bring it down to your religious level. .

Have you ever done a study on fire in the Bible; there are all kinds of fire. There are wood fires, gas fires, coal fires but God needs none of these things what I am interested in seeing is what God’s fire is.

Tell me the difference between the fire in the Lake of Fire at the end of the church age and the cloven tongues of fire at the beginning of the church age.

Yes there are literal fires in the Bible; but how can we as spiritual children understand that God gives us literal examples to see something very hidden and very spiritual. Jesus was not a literal lamb and ate grass, we are not literal sheep that eat grass; the chaff and the wheat are the same thing until they mature.


1 Corinthians 15: 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)


You know Jesus God a dove when He was Baptized in the river Jordon; on the day of Pentecost believers got cloven tongues of fire. Jesus is perfect; we are not. The word fire comes from the Greek word “pur’ which we get our English word pure, purify, purge and the good old catholic purgatory.

Fire was first used with the sacrifice of Able. Our flesh must be sacrificed to be in the presence of God. The sweat of Cain was not sufficient and was not an acceptable offering unto God for sin. All flesh (self) must be burnt by the fire of God.

Don't forget Daniels friend’s thrown in the Fiery Furnace in Babylon. Only their bondages were burn. Does not Baby lon speak of the religious/political systems of man? They were in Baby lon.

Dan 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 24Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Why does God want to baptize us with fire?

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
This is so wrong.
The Bible is never wrong; your carnal approach to it is wrong. Your unorthodox and unbiblical views are wrong.
Explain to me what brimestone is?
Brimestone is another name for sulfur. We find it in the KJV for it is an obsolete name for sulfur. Heat some up and take a good whiff.
Was not John in spirit on the Lord’s day; does it say anywhere in the Book of Revelation that John was seeing literal things in any since of the word.
And I saw That is literal enough for me.

Revelation 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
--He heard; he saw. It is literal.
Everyone of us ought to "be in the spirit" on the Lord's Day.
No he was in spirit on the Lord's day;
Where are you on the Lord's day?
The Book of revelation is the most spiritual book in the whole Bible;
I think that the Book of Romans is just as spiritual. What are you basing your opinion on, and why? Do you know what spirituality is??
but you have to carnalize it to bring it down to your religious level. .
I am not the one that is carnal here, and I am not the one that has carnal beliefs. I believe the Bible for what it says.
Have you ever done a study on fire in the Bible; there are all kinds of fire. There are wood fires, gas fires, coal fires but God needs none of these things what I am interested in seeing is what God’s fire is.
But you don't care to differentiate the difference between the different fires. You completely ignore context.
Tell me the difference between the fire in the Lake of Fire at the end of the church age and the cloven tongues of fire at the beginning of the church age.
Purpose is one difference.
Intensity is another difference.
Shape is another difference.
If you can't tell by the description given in the Bible then I feel sorry for you. Let me tell you something that you might like to know. It is a characteristic of most cults to be "one word-one definition" people. You just demonstrated that principle here. What must be fire in Pentecost must be fire in the Lake of fire. That characteristic is found in most cults.
Yes there are literal fires in the Bible; but how can we as spiritual children understand that God gives us literal examples to see something very hidden and very spiritual. Jesus was not a literal lamb and ate grass, we are not literal sheep that eat grass; the chaff and the wheat are the same thing until they mature.
True spiritual children are able to discern what is literal and what is not. Perhaps your problem is that you are not a true child of God.
You know Jesus God a dove when He was Baptized in the river Jordon;
Will you put this statement into English please. It doesn't make sense.

However notice at the baptism of Jesus:
1. The voice of God the Father came out from Heaven saying, "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" (Mat.3:17).
2. God the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove.
3. God the Son, Jesus, was the one that was baptized.
All three persons of the trinity were present. There is only one God. But all three were present at this one event. This is the trinity.
on the day of Pentecost believers got cloven tongues of fire.
So they did.
Jesus is perfect; we are not. The word fire comes from the Greek word “pur’ which we get our English word pure, purify, purge and the good old catholic purgatory.
Fire purifies gold, silver and precious stones, as it says in 1Cor.11-15. The Bible says nothing of Purgatory, an anti-biblical doctrine.

I am not taking the time to answer the rest of your passages. Your mind is made up not to pay attention to the Scriptures.
 

rbell

Active Member
I do not base my belief on one verse.

Translation: Yikes! You got me!


Forecast: He'll be back, using another name. Yahoos like this can't stay away.

I do, however, find it ironic that a Christian universalist gets banned from something. That's almost poetic.

It's kind of like Abe Vigoda being fired from selling Revlon beauty products...

...Or Joel Osteen getting sacked for a "sour disposition"...

(will post more as I think of them)

fe.jpg
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Translation: Yikes! You got me!


Forecast: He'll be back, using another name. Yahoos like this can't stay away.

I do, however, find it ironic that a Christian universalist gets banned from something. That's almost poetic.

It's kind of like Abe Vigoda being fired from selling Revlon beauty products...

...Or Joel Osteen getting sacked for a "sour disposition"...

(will post more as I think of them)

fe.jpg

LOL

In doing a little online searching, I see that he's done this on other boards as well. He'd come in, ask these same questions, use the same exact arguments (sometimes I think the posts are a full copy/paste of what he posted elsewhere) and then he gets banned for whatever reason (arrogance, heresy, etc.). I found at least 2 boards where he did this and I'm sure there are others.

As I said, the best thing we can do for him is to pray for him. He shows no love to the bretheren and accuses them of being unsaved - yet ultimately everyone will be saved in his eyes so why does he bother? I don't understand that sort of thinking nor do I understand how anyone can come to the conclusion that all are saved after reading through the whole of Scripture. Just doesn't make sense.
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
All that work and he won't be able to respond to it. :tonofbricks:

Good job! Acts 2:3 uses the language of a simile "like as" fire. A simile means we are not to take it literal but simply a comparative likeness to the real as in "all we LIKE sheep have gone astray." We are not literal sheep but "LIKE" sheep. There was no literal fire in Acts 2:3 but something "LIKE AS" fire.
 

eightball

New Member
Bro K,I agree with you on this BUT I do see election clearly taught as well. I believe it's a paradox "freewill and Chosen". But like Deuteronomy 29:29 states“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever,". Paul even expressed his limited mind when he said " O what a depth of the riches and the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how untraceable his ways!". I see both taught...the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man.

Yep, I'm in your camp too. I read election and freewill in the scriptures...............This to me all says, "mystery of God" to me. We hash it over and over concerning the "mechanics" of what is "salvation". It is a Spiritual thing, and is much deeper than I can figure with my "finite" human/created mind.

Sadly, some folks use this area of discussion as a measuring stick of whether others are saved or not, and I think that comes from the "pit".
******
Some dear Christian friends of ours have joined a Reformed church, and ever since they did, they constantly want to debate election, versus free will in matters of salvation. It has driven a wedge in our original relationship as friends. Seems that their Calvinist view, looks upon my wife and myself who don't embrace either side as the only Way, but see something otherwise that is deeply beyond our imaginations, yet entails freewill and election.....as being against them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

eightball

New Member
Yep, I'm in your camp too. I read election and freewill in the scriptures...............This to me all says, "mystery of God" to me. We hash it over and over concerning the "mechanics" of what is "salvation". It is a Spiritual thing, and is much deeper than I can figure with my "finite" human/created mind.

Sadly, some folks use this area of discussion as a measuring stick of whether others are saved or not, and I think that comes from the "pit".
******
Some dear Christian friends of ours have joined a Reformed church, and ever since they did, they constantly want to debate election, versus free will in matters of salvation. It has driven a wedge in our original relationship as friends. Seems that their Calvinist view, cannot accept our view that doesn't embrace either side(Calvinsim/Arminianism) as the exclusive Way. We see something that encompasses both, yet is deeply beyond our finite imaginations/minds, and mysteriously entails freewill and election.

Please forgive my very incomprehensible run-on sentence of my last post in this thread. I tried to correct it in this post. It is in blue lettering.
 
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