Calvibaptist
New Member
OK, so you, once again, ignored the Scripture that I posted twice to bring in a verse that doesn't even mention Pharaoh, but has to do with the ministry of Jesus 1500 years later. So, let's deal with these people and see if "predestination is ruled out."
Acts 4:27-28 For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 "to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.
Now, I know you've been shown this verse before, but here goes. These same people, whom Jesus wanted to take under his wings, gathered together against Jesus "to do whatever [God's] hand and [God's] purpose determined before to be done." The only way you can deny that their actions were predetermined is to ignore and deny the Scripture.
You keep ignoring the fact that God said He raise Him up to accomplish a purpose, not simply that God decided to use him after his rejection to accomplish a purpose. If God were reactionary, as you suggest, then the possibility has to exist that God's purpose would not be achieved. That, my friend, is not possible.
Exodus 9:13-17 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Rise early in the morning and stand before Pharaoh, and say to him, 'Thus says the LORD God of the Hebrews: "Let My people go, that they may serve Me, 14 "for at this time I will send all My plagues to your very heart, and on your servants and on your people, that you may know that there is none like Me in all the earth. 15 "Now if I had stretched out My hand and struck you and your people with pestilence, then you would have been cut off from the earth. 16 "But indeed for this purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth. 17 "As yet you exalt yourself against My people in that you will not let them go.
Notice that God's purpose is the basis for the fact that Pharaoh exalts himself. This is precisely what Paul states in Romans 9. It is not the other way around as you want to have it.
Job 42:1-2 Then Job answered the LORD and said: 2 "I know that You can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
Notice that no purpose of God can fail.
Daniel 4:34-35 And at the end of the time I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned to me; and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever: For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation. 35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"
Even Nebuchadnezzar recognized that God does whatever He wants and no one can stop Him. Maybe you need to take a lesson from a pagan king...
There are no "good people." All of our righteousness is as filthy rags. The only good people are those whom God has saved. The verses I quoted show that Pharaoh was predetermined to be a "bad people" and to choose the wrong master.
You keep using this verse to talk about man in general. But this verse has nothing to do with the unregenerate unbeliever. It is written to believers about their new life in Christ. Only a believer can choose righteousness or unrighteousness. Unbelievers have no such ability. They only choose unrighteousness all the time even though the choice of righteousness is out there.
You still don't answer the question. Is unbelief a sin? Did Jesus die for all the sins of every person? If so, He died for unbelief. So, how can they be punished for a sin that Jesus already paid for? Universal atonement can't answer this question.
The Scripture does not say what you just did. The Scripture says that God is just in justifying the unrighteous because Jesus died for them. It does not say that God is just in condemning people that Jesus died for. That would be the height of injustice.
?!? What? Men are condemned with or without Jesus' death. God would be just to condemn all men (every person who ever lived) if Jesus never died. Jesus' death only justifies to righteousness according to the Scripture.
No man can claim anything in God's court except forgivenss based on mercy. Mercy is at the behest of the mercy-giver. He is under no obligation to give anyone mercy. So if He gives mercy to one and not to another at His own whim, it is not prejudice. This is the whole point of Romans 9:14-18. I am amazed how often you ignore that passage in your attempts to say that God has to have mercy on everyone to not be a "respecter of persons."
You still haven't explained to me how this passage dealing with judgement of a man's works (both believers and unbelievers) relates to salvation by grace through faith. I know what I think it means, but I don't think you can explain it. When you can do that, then you can use the "respect of persons" phrase all you want.
What in the world are you talking about? God is "guilty of the saved????" What does that mean? Do you think we don't teach that a man must repent and believe? It just shows me that you have no idea what "Calvin's doctrine" is or our belief. Nor do you deal with the fact that the predestination you deny is talked about in the Bible. You just want to imagine that it was something dreamed up 400 years ago by a guy named Calvin.
