GAP: Theory or Fact

[Bob Alkire]

Another BTW, the teaching that the spirit and soul are the same thing is the teaching of natural evolution, and this fallacy was not introduced into the church until the idea of natural evolution took hold. The Bible teaches that man is body and soul and spirit; natural evolution teaches that man is a body and soul or spirit.

Here we agree.

 

[Mr.M]

Nothing in the creation of this universe was created to look new. Adam could walk and talk, trees were full grown. Are you trying as so many Theologians have attempted to make a harmonization of science and the Bible?

Science and the Bible ARE harmonious. Maybe you meant to ask am I trying to make a scheme, specifically the GAP doctrine and its astronomical and geological observations and findings, fit the Bible. No, I am discovering in the Bible all the truth I can and then interpreting and understanding what I find in my environment in light of that.

 

[Mr.M]

Has anyone noticed that the only ones who believe in the gap theory are the ME guys?

Just an observation.

It is a wrong observation and reckless to use such absolute language...the "only ones".

 

[David Lamb]

Has anyone noticed that the only ones who believe in the gap theory are the ME guys?

Just an observation.

I don't think that can be correct, Amy. As I mentioned on another thread, Millennial Exclusion is a doctrine which doesn't (so far) seem to have reached the UK (unless under another name). But there are plenty of people here who believe in the so-called "gap theory". (Not me, by the way).

 

[Lazarus]

To those who hold strictly to a 6 day creation, did God create the Heavens complete with all of the heavenly host at the same instant that He created the earth?

 

[Bob Alkire]

I am discovering in the Bible all the truth I can and then interpreting and understanding what I find in my environment in light of that.

That is good and that is what I'm doing and I guess we are not of the same view. Keep the study up of His Word and you will do well and be used by Him as He wants! When I was educated in the Gap Theory most of the teachers of it were Bible teachers. Even the Scofield has in its notes," Relegate fossils to the primitive creation, and no conflict of science with the Genesis cosmogony remains."

I'm sure there might be a few but I don't know of any real geologist or astronomers who would support the Gap Theory.

Many men used greatly by God held that view and many used by God greatly have rejected the Gap Theory and many never had that view.

By the way when I say trying to harmonize, I mean make it fit, anything that is in the Scriptures about science will fit with true science and man does not have to try and make it fit.

 

[David Lamb]

To those who hold strictly to a 6 day creation, did God create the Heavens complete with all of the heavenly host at the same instant that He created the earth?

As far as I am aware, we are not told. But Exodus 20.11 says:

For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.​

Whether or not it was the same instant, they were both created on the first day.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Has anyone noticed that the only ones who believe in the gap theory are the ME guys? Just an observation.

I don't go along with the Gap Theory to day, but some of the men who have helped me in my study of His Word did agree with the gap. Some of the finest Christian men I every knew and they were not ME guys. I would say your observation is wrong or your circle is very small.

 

[Lacy Evans]

I don't think that can be correct, Amy. As I mentioned on another thread, Millennial Exclusion is a doctrine which doesn't (so far) seem to have reached the UK (unless under another name). But there are plenty of people here who believe in the so-called "gap theory". (Not me, by the way).

The doctrine of Christian Accountability was there before it was here.

Robert Govett (1813-1901).

Robert Govett was a brilliant English pastor. He was a fellow of Worcester College, Oxford.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Whether or not it was the same instant, they were both created on the first day.

So where do you place the fall of Lucifer in time?

 

[Amy.G]

It is a wrong observation and reckless to use such absolute language...the "only ones".

To all who have been offended, I humbly apologize. I did not mean all ME people worldwide, I only meant those who post on this board. It was just an observation and I am probably too sensitive. It seems that the ME doctrine creeps into many discussions these days on this board and I am probably being paranoid because I am greatly offended by the ME beliefs.
Please forgive me of any offense.

:1_grouphug:

 

[David Lamb]

The doctrine of Christian Accountability was there before it was here.

Sorry, Lacy, you have misunderstood me (my fault probably - sorry). I would say that the doctrine of Christian accountability reached what is now the UK when the gospel did. What I was referring to before was that specific doctrine that seems to be known as ME, that says that some Christians when they die will go to a place of punishment for 1000 years. It is that particular doctrine that I have not come across here. (I couldn't find it in the link you provided about Robert Govett, either).

 

[David Lamb]

So where do you place the fall of Lucifer in time?

As the bible doesn't tell us (at least as far as I know), I don't try to place it at a particular time. Perhaps you know a scripture which does provide that information.

 

[Accountable]

I don't think that can be correct, Amy. As I mentioned on another thread, Millennial Exclusion is a doctrine which doesn't (so far) seem to have reached the UK (unless under another name). But there are plenty of people here who believe in the so-called "gap theory". (Not me, by the way).

Actualy Kigdom Accountability, Millenial Exclusion, etc. has been taught by great men from your side of the pond. I know of one church in particular that teaches this doctrinal truth in England.

Do you know of Robert Govett from the 1800's? He wrote many books dealing with the subject of which I have copies of today. There are others but this should be sufficient to show that the doctrine has been and is being preaches in the UK.

Sorry, did not see that Lacy had dealt with this already. I'm just trying to catch up from last night.

 

[tinytim]

It is impossible to speak definitively on this subject since there is nothing in the Bible to support it, one way or another.

God is silent. It is a mystery.
Part of the problem is the question "When did Time begin"
And in our feeble minds, it is hard to fathom eternity.

We may ask "What did God do BEFORE creating the universe?" But if time was created the same time the universe was created, there was nothing BEFORE, since even the word "before" requires time.

All that existed was, is, will be eternity...apart from the universe.

So looking to the past from our viewpoint, when was the universe created?...

All God says is "In the beginning" The beginning of what? Time.

Also, what if the speed of light is slowing down?

 

[Accountable]

I have waited thinking someone would bring this up but since it has not let's look at it.

Do we have a type here? Many (not Just "ME'rs) use extensive typology in their teaching. It amazes me how God gives us word pictures through His O.T.

I believe that Genesis is the skeleton on which the meat of the word holds to. You can't get any deeper than the bone. The skeleton is what our body is affixed to and on.

What do we see with the gap?

1.A. We see Original creation. Perfect, without blemish.
1.B. We see Adam, the first man created perfect , without blemish.

2.A. We see the void brought by the fall by Satan's disobedience.
2.B. We see the void in man brought on by man's disobedience.

3.A. We see God taking six days to restore (Make) the earth as we now know it.
3.B. We see God taking six days to restore man to his proper state, a living body, soul, and spirit for dominion.

4.A. God rested on the seventh day.
4.B. God will rest again in our Lord's seventh day, the Millenium

You do not see God's redemption plan without the devistation.

This view is not taken out of the need for the type but the type comes from the presedented truth. God has shown us HIS plan for man from the first chapter of Genesis.

I fear this got lost in the midst of another great debate late last night. Does anyone else here use types? I believe that God showed us the clear plan for fallen man through Genesis 1.

 

[Accountable]

Sorry, Lacy, you have misunderstood me (my fault probably - sorry). I would say that the doctrine of Christian accountability reached what is now the UK when the gospel did. What I was referring to before was that specific doctrine that seems to be known as ME, that says that some Christians when they die will go to a place of punishment for 1000 years. It is that particular doctrine that I have not come across here. (I couldn't find it in the link you provided about Robert Govett, either).

With just a little research I found that there are several from England who taught this doctrinal truth.

I know it is a long paragraph but please read it. Hope this helps you to see the teaching has been in England for a long time.

Lt. Col. Joseph Sladen (1841-1930)

"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulteres, nor effeminate..... shall inherit the Kingdom of God.' To whom are these solemn words addressed? 'Unto the Church of God, which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints.' So it appears that some of the Church of God at Corinth were not walking worthy of their calling; but that on the contrary they were unrighteous and defrauding their brethren. They were apparently ignorant that such conduct would exclude them from the Kingdom of God unless they repented of their sin. Hence the warning of the Apostle. 'Be not deceived.' Ne evil-doers will have part in the manifested Kingdom of God... All men of faith in all dispensations will have their part in the Eternal City, the metropolis of the Eternal Kingdom. But positively, good works done after justification by faith are necessary for entrance into the Millenial Kingdom of God; and negatively, 'the works of the felsh' bar entrance into it."

Joseph Sladen, The Entrance Into The Kingdom Of God, Prophecy Investigation Society, Nov. 12th, 1909 (London)

(Any incorrect spellings are my fault. I had to type it out of a treasure book I have.)

 

[Lazarus]

Why does each thread turn into an ME debate?

If ME is true then Jesus will be quite alone in the 1000 year kingdom since scripture says:

Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Besides I used to be quite fond of ME until I upgraded to XP:laugh:

 

[Bob Alkire]

Why does each thread turn into an ME debate?

If ME is true then Jesus will be quite alone in the 1000 year kingdom ...

Well said!!!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Are you trying as so many Theologians have attempted to make a harmonization of science and the Bible?

There is no disharmonization between science fact (observable and not theory) and Scriptures.

BTW, I got this information confirmed by a professor at a university in Israel, although I heard it many years ago. The grammar of the first verses does not require a gap. It permits a gap. (It's not really a gap, so much as a continuation, but "gap" is easier.) But, the grammar either requires a gap, or requires the earth to have been created in vain, which contradicts other passages.

Also, there are two different words employed throughout the passage (which I don't have time to list at this moment), one of which means "create from nothing" (God created the heavens and the earth) and one which means create from something already existing.

So, you have pre-adamic earth permitted by the Scriptures (dinosaurs, etc.), but pre-adamic action required (the falling of the angels). [an interesting sidenote here: study when fish were created, but look at the Hebrew not the English.]

I will have to finish this discussion later. I have to make a 5 hour drive to make an appearance at an art show, and won't return until early Monday morning.