Gaza pullout question

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by 3JesusIsGod3:
Masked gunman? That's ok with you?

Did the "riot police" disarm any of them? Not that I know of.

I just can't believe we are being so weak to give in to this.

You're right. Nevermind the Palestinian Riot Police who stopped them from disrupting the pullout. I just can't believe that you are so unwilling to acknowledge any good the Palestinians might do. But, then again, when you are more concerned about land and fullfilling a pre-mill theology than you are peace, I guess it is not so unbelievable afterall.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[church mouse guy]

Joseph, if I were Abbas, I would be worried that al-qaeda was going to murder me and take over. When the Arabs say that they are sick of war, that means that they are losing. The pullout of Gaza may have been good for military reasons, but it is another thing altogether to say that Gaza has a bright future without Jews. It will be an Arab military ghetto the day after Israel finishes pulling out. I can't imagine why the Arabs don't want to live in the Arab League unless they know what we know--the Arab League is prison run by despots.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

CMG,

You might be right. But, then again, you might not. We will wait and see.

BTW,

I don't believe that all Palestinians are incapable of making Gaza a decent place in which to live. Jews are not the only ones who can do that...but, then again, I am not a pre-miller and don't have all the prejudices that seem to come along with that philosophy.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[church mouse guy]

You will have to explain to me what you mean by pre-miller as I believe in the post-Tribulation rapture. Also, I am thinking that God said that the land will only bloom for the Jews but I confess that I am without reference at the moment. If the Arabs are going to be successful, they will have to set aside Islamism and establish a secular state such as Turkey has in my opinion. But I think that Gaza is too small to be a state and completely without the natural resources necessary for development. There are other places that are nicer and safer than the Arab League. If Egypt cannot prevent attacks in their luxury resorts, how can Gaza be better and safer than Egypt? I should think that the rich will continue to visit Nice, France, wouldn't you?

 

[LadyEagle]

But I think that Gaza is too small to be a state and completely without the natural resources necessary for development.

CMG, did you not see my thread on the recent discovery of Gas off the Gaza Strip? The financial deals for that have already been put into motion.

 

[church mouse guy]

No, sorry but I didn't see that. That would make a difference. Now maybe Abbas can buy more bodyguards so that he won't be bumped off by OBL. Israel should just turn their backs and let the Arabs in Gaza fight it out among themselves until the Arabs abandon the place and sell it back to Israel.

Tell me, LE, do you think that there will be a civil war among the Arabs in Gaza? I do. Don't you know the verse, LE, that says that Israel will only bloom for the Jews? I seem to have lost my notes on where it is.

 

[LadyEagle]

Hi, CMG:

These are prophetic of things yet to come:

Isaiah 27 and Isaiah 34 & 35

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by 3JesusIsGod3:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9013350/page/2/

"Throughout the week, various militant groups staged “victory” marches toward the Gush Katif settlement bloc, with crowds led by masked gunmen. Initially, Palestinian police were ill-prepared to stop the marchers but in recent days deployed rows of riot police."

I think terrorists marching in victory parades about sums it all up.

TEL AVIV, Israel (CNN) -- The man who confessed to killing Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin appeared in court for the first time Monday. Jewish law student Yigal Amir told the judge the assassination was meant to halt the Mideast peace process.

Surrounded by guards and a barrage of journalists, Amir was led into Tel Aviv's main court in the same clothes and black skullcap he wore when he fired the fatal shots Saturday. Amir told Magistrate Dan Arbel that Rabin wanted to "give our country to the Arabs." "We need to be cold-hearted," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9511/rabin/amir/11-06/index.html

The funerals have been taking place amid heightened security of the four Israeli Arabs shot dead on a bus by a 19-year-old Israeli army deserter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4747675.stm

In clashes earlier in the day, four Palestinians were injured, one a teenager felled by a rock thrown from close range by a settler, along with one settler and one soldier in the sandy area around the house.

http://www.tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411319/595004/

I think terrorists murdering the former Israeli Prime Minister, Murdering Israeli Arabs, and stoning teenagers about sums it all up.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[3JesusIsGod3]

Bottom line is that you don't retreat from terrorists. I can't understand why Bush and Sharon are doing this.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

3,

I agree. Of course, what you probably fail to see is that there are terrorists on both sides of the conflict who have one common goal...to never have peace. Bush and Sharon do not feel they are retreating from terrorists, whether they be Palestinian or Jewish.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[church mouse guy]

It is a retreat for justifiable military reasons. Moreover, I think that Israel was forced into it by Bush in return for ridding Iraq of Saddam and taking a lot of military pressure off Israel. The Gaza should now attract some of the thugs that have been going to Iraq, as I still say that Arab infighting will break out in Gaza in a power struggle to be top dog and live like a king, as Abbas does now. Europeans, cynically lying that they are broke, will once again fumble around looking for money and the US taxpayer will be forced to fund Gaza as a wall-to-wall welfare state forever and ever world without end.

Egypt won't want Gaza back because their army already can barely control the terrorists and Gaza is full of them, trained and ready to go. The USA will just throw the money over the wall and most of it will end up in Swiss banks in the names of Arab thugs, as always, world without end.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

You know, once Gaza is in Palestinian-control, if ever, if the attacks then continue against Israel, then they should have no problem convincing us outsiders that force is necessary.

I suppose this very well could be a strategic military move in order to garner support for force in the future.

Hope I'm wrong, but either way, with peace or all-out war, the terrorists will lose.

BTW, this is not all about Jew vs. Muslim. There are Jews, Muslims, and Christians in both Palestine and Israel.

I fervently pray that peace can and will be achieved in several Mid-East countries in the next few years.

Where there is peace, there is almost always prosperity. Once that happens, I believe the terrorist sympathizers will begin to realize that terrorism and war are not as glamorous and comforting as peace, harmony, and prosperity.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Bro. James,

AMEN!

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by 3JesusIsGod3:
I think he should pressure Israel to continue to occupy the Gaza. We give a lot of aid money to Israel that we can pull, so we have a way to pressure them.

Israel is a sovereign nation. I don't think we should be pressuring it. Israel should do what the citizens there think is in their best interests to live peaceful, prosperous lives.

 

[LadyEagle]

But the Bush administration has already pressured Israel - as has been pointed out by different ones here in previous posts.

 

[church mouse guy]

Bro. James Reed wrote, "I suppose this very well could be a strategic military move in order to garner support for force in the future."

That is probably correct. Also, the settlements inside Gaza were becoming militarily indefensible.

Lady Eagle says that she linked where there is natural gas in Gaza, but I missed that. Whatever gas is mined will be the extent of Arab income in Gaza unless the Israelis turn over the greenhouses intact, which the Arabs should be able to run by now. Personally, I would level everything instead of giving even more aid to the Arabs, but I suppose that the USA taxpayer is funding the turnover.

Look for the USA taxpayer to have to pay for the welfare of the Gaza Arabs until the end of the world or our own bankruptcy, whichever comes first, because the Europeans will lie and say that they are broke and end up refusing to help.

Since this is American money that is being wasted here, one has to say that Bush ordered this deal, probably as payback for taking out Saddam. Personally, I think that this deal is stupid because it leaves Arabs in control of Gaza, which should be part of Israel. But then the USA has nursed these Arab vipers all along, right?

 

[LadyEagle]

Here is the email response I received from the office of President of Israel:

Re: ‎Your letter to the President of the State of Israel, dated 26th July, 2005

In reply to your above letter, I wish to thank you for your concern for our people and country and to make the following comments:

1. ‎The Disengagement Plan is an issue of difficult political disagreements and the President does not intend expressing his position on it.

2. ‎The President recognizes the right of those opposed to the plan to fight against it by the legitimate and lawful means made available by Israel's democracy.

3. ‎In the past the President expressed his support of a referendum.

4. ‎On the 3rd November, 2004 the Knesset approved the Government's Disengagement Plan and on the 28th March 2005 by a majority of 72 against and 39 in favour voted against the proposed law for a referendum.

5. ‎The democratic character of the Government's conduct is an issue for discussion in the Knesset, in the judicial system and in the media.

With best wishes,

Yours sincerely.

Moshe Goral

Director of the Office of the President of Israel

Well, at least that's not the typical canned response like you get from the politicians here, LOL.

 

[LadyEagle]

Two sources about the Greenhouses - Yes, leave it to the "Great Satan" and the GS's Jews to show their generosity once again, LOL.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/12/gaza/

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/08/20/2003268478

 

[church mouse guy]

I am not surprised that Mort Zuckerman headed up the deal to pass the greenhouses on. I think that he feels about the same way that I do on the issue--dubious.

Wouldn't it be lovely for a European to buy a bouquet of pansies from Hamas, which will undoubtedly trade in their guns and start growing pansies to sell to Europe?

So now we have 2 sources of income--selling flowers to the penniless Spaniards and other leftist Europeans and selling natural gas. Hmmm, I wonder if the Arabs still like eggplant so much?

 

[Bro. James Reed]

LE, it's not like Israel is just gibing the greenhouses to the Palestinians. The Palestinians are buying them and the money is going to the former Israeli settlers.

Were the greenhouses government or privately owned? I didn't catch it if the article said which.

Hopefully, the pre-constructed greenhouses will help the Palestinians establish a working, prosperous economy that much quicker.