-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Gaza terrorism by Israel
- Thread starter dad2
- Start date
- Status
There are very different ideologies.
Here is a photo from a 2004 summer camp held in the Gaza Strip by Hamas (the camp runs from July to August....the gun is plastic).
It is a different mentality.
All Jewish youth are expected to serve in the military as well.
The unfortunate reality is innocent people will be killed regardless of whether Israel defends itself.
War is never pretty. It kills, and kills innocent people. I have never seen so many homeless children missing arms and legs than I saw in Bosnia.
BUT the difference here is stark.
The stated purpose of the Israel attack is to kill the Jews and drive them out of Israel. The stated purpose of Israel's counterattack is to prevent Hamas from killing Israel's citizens (which includes Palestinians).
Here is a photo from a 2004 summer camp held in the Gaza Strip by Hamas (the camp runs from July to August....the gun is plastic).
It is a different mentality.
All Jewish youth are expected to serve in the military as well.
The unfortunate reality is innocent people will be killed regardless of whether Israel defends itself.
War is never pretty. It kills, and kills innocent people. I have never seen so many homeless children missing arms and legs than I saw in Bosnia.
BUT the difference here is stark.
The stated purpose of the Israel attack is to kill the Jews and drive them out of Israel. The stated purpose of Israel's counterattack is to prevent Hamas from killing Israel's citizens (which includes Palestinians).
The answers are not found in our emotions nor in our discussions.
The answers are in God's Word.
Ezekiel chapters 35 through 39 have been staging for a very long time.
Looks like Our Sovereign God may well be about to pull the trigger on fulfilling these prophecies.
Our Sovereign God is not ignorant of the deaths involving with the fulfilling of HIS prophecies.
Who are we to judge God?
The answers are in God's Word.
Ezekiel chapters 35 through 39 have been staging for a very long time.
Looks like Our Sovereign God may well be about to pull the trigger on fulfilling these prophecies.
Our Sovereign God is not ignorant of the deaths involving with the fulfilling of HIS prophecies.
Who are we to judge God?
KenH
Well-Known Member
Christians are to be looking forward to the second coming of Christ and the fulfillment of this when He does:
2 Peter 3:10-13 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
I was beginning to sense that
No I am correct. He ordered Israel when they were His people who had not yet rejected Jesus to kill some evil people. That has zero application to any nation today. Jesus ordered us to love people. He also especially singled out the children.
They don't have any such right if you thought that included whacking hundreds of children. There is a difference between defense and mass murder.
I expect that children and civilians are protected and cared for. They killed the 1500, they say, in Israel and that is wonderful (if they really were the terrorists and not civilians sneaking out a broken fence trying to escape or something) That is right, but killing 500 kids is wrong. Remember one of the reasons they killed the terrorists was for killing kids?
More than sad, it is evil.
I did not say a secular nation should not defend itself. I say that they should not call deliberate mass murder of children defense!
He has zero to do with killing the people actually. He knew Israel would be there and knew they would get what is coming. He did not ask any terrorists or nation to mass murder civilians.
You said that God wouldn't command the killing of citizens.
That was not a correct statement.
God commanded Israel to attack Amalek, and to kill every man, woman, child, and infant.
I agree that is not this situation. My point is that your statement was wrong.
You are still wrong about a nations right to protect its citizens (men, women, children, infants) ending if a child is killed in the process.
For Israel not to defend itself would make that government culpable in the children the Palestinians decapitated, the women raped and killed, the civilians murdered and kidnapped because that government is responsible for protecting its citizens.
Pleading with civilians to leave the area ahead of an attack and then attacking with civilian casualties is NOT the same as targeting civilians, raping women, decapitating children.
Haven't you heard of Jesus? He loves the little children. He would never command anyone to hurt them. Nor does He command Israel to do anything, they do not know Him. They do what they do totally on their own.
Totally irrelevant. He commanded His people then. Israel is in unbelief and does not know Him. They do not get to be His people again till they are saved. Right now they are His in name only and by heritage. Nothing they do can be blamed on God. Not the expulsion of masses from their homes, the killing of civilians etc etc etc etc.
No I am correct. They have no right from God. Any right they claim to have is made up. Like the people who say they have a right to kill babies in the womb.
False. Defending itself does not mean murdering innocents. Period. get over that one.
False it is the same when you cage them up, forbid travel, and reign down hundreds of bombs a day on heavily populated areas. Asking a million people to leave is a charade for the benefit of someone other than the people who live there.
Yes. And you don't want Israel to protect their children because Hamas uses their own citizens as pawns.
That's the issue. The children always suffer in war.
But to allow Palestinians to decapitate Jewish children for fear that if you don't they will use their own citizens as shields does not make sense.
I am not saying God gives them the right to protect their citizens. I am saying that as a nation they have a right and responsibility to protect their citizens.
It would be interesting to see you stand before God justifying the killing of children to protect children a terroristic government may use for propaganda.
At least my argument is based on a nations right to defence. Yours is simply deciding that Jewish children have no right to live if defending them puts others in danger.
They shouldn't have attacked Israel. Period their own blood is on their own hands. Until Hamas is wiped completely it will not and should not end.
Yes, protect your children! Shoot dead all that try to harm them. That does not mean kill hundreds of children while you are at it yourself.
On purpose? Targeting their apartments makes it on purpose.
Who would allow that?? You think that unless you kill 500 children you are allowing them to kill children? Makes no sense.
Not by killing civilians on purpose.
Who is justifying killing children??? Certainly not me or God!
False. Whacking 500 children is not defense.
Totally false claim. All children must be protected. The issue is that some people call whacking 500 children 'protecting children'!
False. The blood of the 500 children you killed is not on their hands at all. Or God's hands. Only on the hands of Israel. The innocents Hamas killed are on their hands.
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:
Goals of the HAMAS:
"The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." (Article 6)
On the destruction of Israel:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)
The exclusive Moslem nature of the area:
"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)
"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)
The call to jihad:
"The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15)
"Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)
Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement:
"[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." (Article 13)
Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:
"Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act." (Article 32)
Anti-Semitic incitement:
The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7)
"The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions - which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ... and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it." (Article 22)
"Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'." (Article 32)
"The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews." (Article 32)
Analysis of the Hamas Charter
(Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center)
From address by FM Avigdor Liberman to the Global Forum for Combating Antisemitism - Dec 2009
The Hamas charter is the document which sets out the movement's ideology as it was formulated and honed by its founders. It includes its radical Islamic world view (conceived by the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt), which has basically not changed in the 18 years of its existence. With regard to Israel, the charter's stance is uncompromising. It views the "problem of Palestine" as a religious-political Muslim issue, and the Israeli-Palestinian confrontation as a conflict between Islam and the "infidel" Jews. "Palestine" is presented as sacred Islamic land and it is strictly forbidden to give up an inch of it because no one (including Arab-Muslim rulers) has the authority to do so. With regard to international relations, the charter manifests an extremist worldview which is as anti-Western as Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.
That worldview brings in its wake the refusal to recognize the State of Israel's right to exist as an independent, sovereign nation, the waging of a ceaseless jihad (holy war) against it and total opposition to any agreement or arrangement that would recognize its right to exist. At the beginning of the charter there is a quotation attributed to Hassan Al-Bana,4 that "Israel will arise and continue to exist until Islam wipes it out, as it wiped out what went before."
Overt, vicious anti-Semitism, with both Islamic and Christian-European origins, is used extensively throughout the document. The all-out holy war (jihad) against the Jewish people is legitimized by presenting the Jews in a negative light and demonizing them as wanting to take over not only the Middle East but also the rest of the world. One of the jihad's deadliest manifestations is suicide bombing terrorism, which was developed mainly by Hamas during the 1990s and has become its leading "strategy" in the ongoing violent Israeli-Palestinian confrontation.
The Jews are also presented as worthy of only humiliation and lives of misery. That is because, according to the charter, they angered Allah, rejected the Qur'an and killed the prophets (the relevant Qur'an verse from Surah Aal-‘Imran is quoted at the beginning of the charter). The document also includes anti-Semitic myths taken from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (mentioned in Article 32) regarding Jewish control of the media, the film industry and education (Articles 17 and 22). The myths are constantly repeated to represent the Jews as responsible for the French and Russian revolutions and for all world and local wars: "No war takes place anywhere without the Jews' being behind it" (Article 22). The charter demonizes the Jews and describes them as brutally behaving like Nazis toward women and children (Article 29).
The charter views the jihad (holy war) as the way to take all of "Palestine" from the Jews and to destroy the State of Israel, and Hamas's terrorist attacks are seen as links in the jihad chain carried out during the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Article 15 states that "the jihad to liberate ‘Palestine' is the personal duty" of every Muslim, an idea expounded by ‘Abdallah ‘Azzam.
The charter emphasizes the battle for Muslim hearts and minds or "the spread of Islamic consciousness" within three main spheres: the Palestinians, the Arab Muslims and the non-Arab Muslims (Article 15). The process of fostering and spreading that "Islamic consciousness" is defined as its most important mission. Clerics, educators, men of culture, those active in the media and information services and the generally educated public all have the responsibility to carry it
https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The Hamas-Covenant.aspx
This is a false premise.
Israel is targeting areas that house Hamas weapons while pleading with residents to leave those areas so as to avoid killing civilians as much as possible.
The reason they are doing this is Hamas was killing their children, cutting their heads off, killing teenagers, raping and killing women.
Israel is protecting children, pleading in advance for residents to leave areas where weapons are stored. Then, supposedly, a ground assault to root out the terrorists.
What you are suggesting is to allow the killing, the intentional murdering of children, to continue as long as they are Jewish children being murdered.
That is no solution.
So they are evil, that is news? The issue here is Israel killing many hundreds of children and babies.
No. There is no need to TARGET civilians in defending yourself.
Says them. It looks like scores of apartment buildings wiped out. More children than bombs destroyed probably.
Who cares what reason some has for mass murdering children??
No, killing 500 children is not protecting them. They need protection from Israel.
No I am suggesting they stop killing children on purpose.
Bombing apartments in heavily populated areas IS murdering children.
its unfortunate but that is where Hamas is. They, unlike Hamas are not targeting them. There is no moral equivalence here.
Uh....no.
The issue is Israel is defending its citizens to include women, children and babies.
Hopefully citizens in Palestine will listen to Israel's warnings and follow their instructions to leave areas where weapons are being stored.
Your plan is to sacrifice Jewish women and children so that people will not have to leave the area and go to another location in Gaza and then sacrifice all of the Jews in Israel so that Palestinians can occupy the nation.
False premise. Israel is not targeting civilians. They are targeting buildings that housed weapons and from which rockets were fired in preparation for a ground assault.
Perhaps you simply got confused. It was Hamas who targeted civilians, not military structures, decapitated children, kidnapped citizens.
Explain how that works. If they target 100 apartment building with people in a heavily populated area...you are not really targeting?
- Status