Gaza terrorism by Israel

[dad2]

What is the purpose in this thread? Are you trying to change someone's mind? Are you just wanting to get in an argument? Are you just trying to spew left wing propaganda?

It was a discussion of why preachers support Israel and the atrocities going on. It was also looking for Christians to justify why they supported such things. It was also trying to make up my mind and look at a range of opinions on it. I have concluded as I think I mentioned already that Israel does not have the love of God in them and that killing babies and families is evil. I have also lost trust for the many preachers I used to listen to and enjoy that are gung ho Israel supporters. I can also see why God must allow Israel to go through what is coming in the last days.

 

[JonC]

What training is needed to know it is absurd to ask a million people in a heavy war zone to move? What training is needed to know blowing up apartment after apartment is evil? None. It is patently obvious. If anyone trains people to do that they need retraining fast.

This is not true.

24 hours was extreme, but that has long past.

The Gaza Strip is what? 25 miles in length? They have a government. People can be relocated.

The problem is that their government is interested in using those people rather than helping them. They would rather make martyrs for their cause than save lives. It makes sense, but it is evil.

That said, a nation cannot refuse to defend itself because the enemy would use people as pawns.

Israel's responsibility is not to deliberately target civilians, to give civilians a warning. They have done much more than ethically required of them.

 

[KenH]

Israel is not asking to occupy the land.

Hamas runs the Gaza Strip. Israel wants to wipe out Hamas. If they succeed, then who will run Gaza?

Israel occupied the Gaza Strip from the Six-Day War in 1967 until 2005. In 1993 under the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority became the administrator while Israel maintained control of the airspace, waters and the crossings except for the southern one that Egypt controls. Hamas was elected to power in 2007 and then expelled the rival party, Fatah. They tried for a Palestinian Unity government between the West Bank and Gaza in 2014, but the 2015 Israel-Gaza conflict led to its dissolution.

So, if Israel wipes out Hamas, then who will run Gaza? Does Israel occupy it again like it did from 1967 to 2005?

 

[dad2]

Since you admittedly have no training or knowledge of this situation and you are just trying to armchair quarterback things you have admitted you know nothing of and since you refuse to answer my questions, it is fair to assume that the goal these posts you have made here is to spread propaganda. Propaganda that allows Hamas to continue to slaughter innocent Israeli Babies by beheading them, to gang rape Israeli women in the streets and drag their bodies out in public. Propaganda to feeds to goals of Hamas. You speak of things you know nothing about and your posts have been evil.

I do have training in what His spirit is like and heart and right and wrong. Any training that callouses one's heart to basic right and wrong is worthless and dangerous. Offering the idea 'training' has anything to do with God;s position on killing families shows you are missing the heart of the argument here.

 

[JonC]

Hamas runs the Gaza Strip. Israel wants to wipe out Hamas. If they succeed, then who will run Gaza?

Israel occupied the Gaza Strip from the Six-Day War in 1967 until 2005. In 1993 under the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority became the administrator while Israel maintained control of the airspace, waters and the crossings except for the southern one that Egypt controls. Hams was elected to power in 2007 and then expelled the rival party, Fatah. They tried for a Palestinian Unity government between the West Bank and Gaza in 2014, but the 2015 Israel-Gaza conflict led to its dissolution.

So, if Israel wipes out Hamas, then who will run Gaza? Does Israel occupy it again like it did from 1967 to 2005?

I doubt Israel would occupy it, for political reasons ....but that would be my preference. I'd like it to be annexed into Israel.

 

[dad2]

This is not true.

24 hours was extreme, but that has long past.

No excuse. Then to murder convoys fleeing, that shows what is going on behind the thin charade.

The Gaza Strip is what? 25 miles in length? They have a government. People can be relocated.

They can't even get a glass of water actually. The convoys that did flee were mowed down. Whether the families have a so called government or not does not matter when their apartments are blown up. Etc.

The problem is that their government is interested in using those people rather than helping them. They would rather make martyrs for their cause than save lives. It makes sense, but it is evil.

No the problem is bombs from Israel are killing them.

That said, a nation cannot refuse to defend itself because the enemy would use people as pawns.

Murdering families has zero to do with defending yourself. Do they even have a list of who is in Hamas? Could they require an apartment to evacuate to sort through who all is in there, then arrest actual bad guys? If not they should not be there. If so they should be using that list and finding the actual criminals.

Israel's responsibility is not to deliberately target civilians, to give civilians a warning.

Sorry that line is long past being true or believable.

 

[JonC]

What is strange to me is how many believe Palestine is good and Israel bad.

Think of it.

In Palestine, if you are Jewish or Christian your life is in danger.

Israel is about 20% Muslim, about 2% Christian, and about 1.5% Druze. The danger to them come primarily from Palestine.

 

[JonC]

No excuse. Then to murder convoys fleeing, that shows what is going on behind the thin charade.

They can't even get a glass of water actually. The convoys that did flee were mowed down. Whether the families have a so called government or not does not matter when their apartments are blown up. Etc.

No the problem is bombs from Israel are killing them.

Murdering families has zero to do with defending yourself. Do they even have a list of who is in Hamas? Could they require an apartment to evacuate to sort through who all is in there, then arrest actual bad guys? If not they should not be there. If so they should be using that list and finding the actual criminals.

Sorry that line is long past being true or believable.

No, you are again wrong.

If a police officer accidentally kills a civilian while returning fire on a murderer it is unfortunate, but it is not murder.

The difference is while the government of Gaza targeted civilians Israel has not.

And yes, when an area is under siege supplies are cut off. That is the purpose of a siege. The first step is to destroy the infrastructure. Then send in troops.


Now, if the Canadian military wants to go into Gaza, go building to building, floor to floor, making sure all civilians have evacuated before destroying the Hamas' military infrastructure so that troops can enter .... I'd be OK with that. But I'd object if the US would be so foolish (and I know Israel isn't so foolish).

 

[dad2]

What is strange to me is how many believe Palestine is good and Israel bad.

Think of it.

In Palestine, if you are Jewish or Christian your life is in danger.

Israel is about 20% Muslim, about 2% Christian, and about 1.5% Druze. The danger to them come primarily from Palestine.

I don't think that. I think children should not be killed.

 

[dad2]

No, you are again wrong.

If a police officer accidentally kills a civilian while returning fire on a murderer it is unfortunate, but it is not murder.

The difference is while the government of Gaza targeted civilians Israel has not.

Say what? If convoys flee as told and then are attacked by air and killed, that is anything but accidental, Blow up an apartment in a heavily populated area and that is deliberate. Nothing accidental about it. First degree murder.

 

[KenH]

I doubt Israel would occupy it

So who would run it? The United Nations?

 

[JonC]

So who would run it? The United Nations?

I don't know. I hope Israel. But I doubt it.

 

[JonC]

Say what? If convoys flee as told and then are attacked by air and killed, that is anything but accidental, Blow up an apartment in a heavily populated area and that is deliberate. Nothing accidental about it. First degree murder.

Not by Biblical (in the Bible war did not differentiate between civilian and military, and was excluded from "murder"), US, or International Law (in US and International Law these would be casualties of war as what is targeted is the military structure).

Now, if those buildings were not in an area a part of the Hamas military structure, and were deliberately targeted, then yes. But thus far the area targeted has been the Hamas infrastructure. And unfortunately it is in a heavily populated area.

 

[KenH]

I don't know. I hope Israel. But I doubt it.

Well, Israel had best have a plan for post-conflict, or else they will end up occupying and running it again. Someone would have to.

 

[JonC]

Well, Israel had best have a plan for post-conflict, or else they will end up occupying and running it again. Someone would have to.

I suspect they have some sort of plan. The whole reason is to keep this from happening over and over again.

The problem is that it will, if not from Gaza then from the West Bank.

Too much of their world want to eradicate Israel (and Christians) from the world.

 

[dad2]

Not by Biblical (in the Bible war did not differentiate between civilian and military, and was excluded from "murder"), US, or International Law (in US and International Law these would be casualties of war as what is targeted is the military structure).

Israel today has zero to do with bible wars and no rights from God to play God. If pastors support Israel in destroying people they are way out to lunch. Declaring apartments military structures in a heavily populated area is ridiculous. I would see it more as cartel like gangs bullying people or sneaking around and using an apartment to launch something, hide something etc. Hardly the fault of kids.

Now, if those buildings were not in an area a part of the Hamas military structure, and were deliberately targeted, then yes. But thus far the area targeted has been the Hamas infrastructure. And unfortunately it is in a heavily populated area.

You could say that about the whole strip. The apartments sometimes were used by military terrorists but that does not mean always were used and it does not mean all were used. Nor does it mean that is a pass to wipe out the people in apartment after apartment building.

 

[JonC]

Israel today has zero to do with bible wars and no rights from God to play God. If pastors support Israel in destroying people they are way out to lunch. Declaring apartments military structures in a heavily populated area is ridiculous. I would see it more as cartel like gangs bullying people or sneaking around and using an apartment to launch something, hide something etc. Hardly the fault of kids.



You could say that about the whole strip. The apartments sometimes were used by military terrorists but that does not mean always were used and it does not mean all were used. Nor does it mean that is a pass to wipe out the people in apartment after apartment building.

AGAIN, I didn't say this was a holy war.

I said you were wrong because of the biblical definition of murder and the definition under International Law.

The idea is not to destroy all apartments that could house military weapons. It is to target the Hamas military structure.

We will never agree because I am not pro-Hamas. Also, I am basing my position on law, not feelings

If Israel were to have attacked unprovoked, then I'd say Gaza would be in the right to defend itself against Israel.

My position on the Ukraine is the same. Although civilians on both sides have been killed, other than Ukraine's targeting of a few Russians who were civilians, it was not murder. Ukraine has a right to defend itself even though civilian lives will be lost.

In WW2 German civilians were killed. But for the most part they were not targeted. That was not murder.

And Israel has the right to defend itself. You say they don't, but under International Law they do.

 

[xlsdraw]

This is absolutely a spiritual war. Islam is Satanic. Islam falsely teaches that dying in attempting to kill Jews is martyrdom.

Islam struck Israel on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur war. This was precisely calculated as was the 1973 Yom Kippur war.

Satan is triggering his 2 billion Muslims by making 2 million Muslims subject to Israeli retaliation from Muslim provocation. Satan is loving every minute of this quagmire.

The Jews do not have the Holy Spirit as a deterrent and are responding in line with Old Testament standards. Actually Israel is responding quite mildly in comparison with Old Testament standards.

This is designed to activate the Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 war that has been well staged to take place.

And the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses is ready and waiting for Satan's Gog-Magog Alliance of nations hordes.

HAMON-GOG is waiting for the Gog-Magog hordes.

Now I understand that this is hard to comprehend for most Christians because of the Biblical ignorance of most Christians.

 

[JonC]

This is absolutely a spiritual war. Islam is Satanic. Islam falsely teaches that dying in attempting to kill Jews is martyrdom.

Islam struck Israel on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur war.

Satan is triggering his 2 billion Muslims by making 2 million Muslims subject to Israeli retaliation from Muslim provocation. Satan is loving every minute of this quagmire.

The Jews do not have the Holy Spirit as a deterrent and are responding in line with Old Testament standards.

This is designed to activate the Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 war that has been well staged to take place.

And the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses is ready and waiting for Satan's Gog-Magog Alliance of nations hordes.

HAMON-GOG is waiting for the Gog-Magog hordes.

Now I understand that this is hard to comprehend for most Christians because of the Biblical ignorance of most Christians.

About 20% of Israel are Muslim. And Islamic men serve in the Israeli military. How do they fit in?

 

[dad2]

AGAIN, I didn't say this was a holy war.

You may not but some preachers teach it. I would say it is unholy.

I said you were wrong because of the biblical definition of murder and the definition under International Law.

No, God loves the children and regardless of man's so called laws mass murder of people is wrong.

The idea is not to destroy all apartments that could house military weapons. It is to target the Hamas military structure.

What about going to each apartment and searching it after temporarily evacuating the people in it?

If Israel were to have attacked unprovoked, then I'd say Gaza would be in the right to defend itself against Israel.

Provoked or not doesn't matter. If you provoke a neighbor does that give him the right to blow up your apartment tower?

My position on the Ukraine is the same. Although civilians on both sides have been killed, other than Ukraine's targeting of a few Russians who were civilians, it was not murder. Ukraine has a right to defend itself even though civilian lives will be lost.

I'll leave that one alone.

In WW2 German civilians were killed. But for the most part they were not targeted. That was not murder.

That was somewhat more of a war where various armies were fighting. In Gaza it is a bombardment of a heavily populated area killing many many hundreds of women and children.

And Israel has the right to defend itself.

Real defense maybe. Not attacking civilian areas. That is not defense it is slaughter.

 

[dad2]

This is absolutely a spiritual war. Islam is Satanic. Islam falsely teaches that dying in attempting to kill Jews is martyrdom.

Regardless of religion, families should be protected. Many people do not like the beliefs of Israel and call them evil. I think people should spend less time demonizing populations so that they feel justified in killing babies.

Satan is triggering his 2 billion Muslims by making 2 million Muslims subject to Israeli retaliation from Muslim provocation. Satan is loving every minute of this quagmire.

Blaming the devil or assigning the devil to people you do not like is not an excuse to slaughter families.

The Jews do not have the Holy Spirit as a deterrent and are responding in line with Old Testament standards. Actually Israel is responding quite mildly in comparison with Old Testament standards.

God was the old testament standard. Jesus came to earth and showed what God is really like. How God had to do things in the old testament to ensure a way to salvation for man could happen has nothing to do with any secular nation today including Israel. They are not even believers.

And the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses is ready and waiting for Satan's Gog-Magog Alliance of nations hordes.

In another thread or forum I discussed the timing of that invasion. What ended up seeming like the most likely time for it was near the end of the seven years and probably some early stage of Armageddon or close to that time.

So don't kid yourself.