? - Gen 1:31

[Van]

There is a back story not directly told to us. Note, John 8:44 and Matthew 25:41.

I think your idea is God was not arranging the Fall, but the fact Satan is a liar is not in dispute

 

[Calminian]

More utterly false statements. Only an intellectual lightweight would post falsehoods non-stop. See you are not the only one who could make false statements about an opponent. ...

Says the guy confronted on his own contradictions. Intellectual lightweights generally start slinging mud when they lose arguments.

 

[37818]

I think your idea is God was not arranging the Fall, but the fact Satan is a liar is not in dispute

I am of the opinion that the angels where created before the 7 days of the creation, Job 38:4-7. The what and when of the fall of the angels seems to be post earth Genesis 1:1-2, Revelation 12:4, Jude 1:6. I think there has been to much speculation as to details. 1 Corinthians 6:3.

 

[Calminian]

I am of the opinion that the angels where created before the 7 days of the creation, Job 38:4-7. The what and when of the fall of the angels seems to be post earth Genesis 1:1-2, Revelation 12:4, Jude 1:6. I think there has been to much speculation as to details. 1 Corinthians 6:3.

Ezekiel 28 says Satan was still unfallen in "Eden, the Garden of God" just prior to his fall.

And the foundations of the land were made on day 3, when the dry land was separated from the sea. A watery formless foundation-less land was created on day 1.

This means angels could have been created anytime from day 1 to the beginning of day 3. I used to think day 4 was a possibility, but the Job verses effectively eliminate that option. Day 1 makes the most sense, being that Angels are beings of light.

 

[Van]

Says the guy confronted on his own contradictions. Intellectual lightweights generally start slinging mud when they lose arguments.

Yet another edited deflection, who uses ad hominems to hide bogus doctrine.

 

[Van]

I am of the opinion that the angels where created before the 7 days of the creation, Job 38:4-7. The what and when of the fall of the angels seems to be post earth Genesis 1:1-2, Revelation 12:4, Jude 1:6. I think there has been to much speculation as to details. 1 Corinthians 6:3.

Job 38 pretty much overs my view.

 

[timtofly]

Note the edit to avoid the thread topic, and then the misrepresentation of my view?

The reason folks use the term "arranged for the Fall" rather than "predestined the Fall" is to avoid God being the author of Adam's choice to sin. God's plan was to allow (not cause) Adam to sin by providing the opportunity and temptation such that Adam would choose of his own volition to sin. And yes, before creation God had chosen His Redeemer, so God anticipated the Fall, and the consequences of the Fall.

God was a scientist. He liked to experiment. Satan created the virtual reality of billions of years to see which scientist humans would choose. The real one or the fake one?

 

[timtofly]

Job 38 pretty much overs my view.

So you accept the stars are the angels created on day 4, and the sons of God were created on day 6. Cool.

There are two different types, stars and sons of God. And there was more than 1 son of God. And it was 1000 years later that God named Adam, and built a Garden.

Just as 2000 years later, God took Abraham and changed his name.

Just like 2000 years later, God Himself came and changed His name to Jesus.

Just like 2000 years later, the Second Coming, where God gives all in Christ a new name.

Then God rested during the last 1000 years on earth. As well as removing work as punishment to Adam after 6000 years of humanity's own labor. Well only 6 days to the Lord.

 

[Van]

So you accept the stars are the angels created on day 4, and the sons of God were created on day 6. Cool.

There are two different types, stars and sons of God. And there was more than 1 son of God. And it was 1000 years later that God named Adam, and built a Garden.

Just as 2000 years later, God took Abraham and changed his name.

Just like 2000 years later, God Himself came and changed His name to Jesus.

Just like 2000 years later, the Second Coming, where God gives all in Christ a new name.

Then God rested during the last 1000 years on earth. As well as removing work as punishment to Adam after 6000 years of humanity's own labor. Well only 6 days to the Lord.

The Job 38 view is we were not there and therefore we do not know exactly how God created the heavens, earth and the whole enchilada.

 

[timtofly]

The Job 38 view is we were not there and therefore we do not know exactly how God created the heavens, earth and the whole enchilada.

Of course not, I was born in 67. So there are two beings, stars and sons of God.

However, you are an alien neither a son of God nor Angel? The stars were on day 4. Are you saying day 4 was not close enough to the beginning either? If you are not a son of God, nor an angel, who are you?

Job 38 clearly says there were stars, and there were sons of God. Can you prove something else?

 

[Van]

Of course not, I was born in 67. So there are two beings, stars and sons of God.

However, you are an alien neither a son of God nor Angel? The stars were on day 4. Are you saying day 4 was not close enough to the beginning either? If you are not a son of God, nor an angel, who are you?

Job 38 clearly says there were stars, and there were sons of God. Can you prove something else?

Your non-stop efforts to put words in my mouth are disgusting. Cite the verse or passage from which you are supporting your view.

 

[37818]

Yet another edited deflection, who uses ad hominems to hide bogus doctrine.

What are you saying? What is the "edited deflection?" What are the "ad hominems?" What "botus doctrine" are you speaking about being "hid?" Or are you just being intellectually dishonest?

 

[Van]

What are you saying? What is the "edited deflection?" What are the "ad hominems?" What "botus doctrine" are you speaking about being "hid?" Or are you just being Intellectually dishonest?

You are wasting posts, avoiding the topic.

Here is the post with the edited portion bolded.
Calminian said: ↑

Hey, got you back in the first person. Too bad, that third person thing was fun.

And I stand by my statement. You speak in fatalistic terms, while trying to deny it with phony distinctions. And you insist the Bible does not teach young earth.

That's 2 errors in likely a larger snowball of errors.​

More utterly false statements. Only an intellectual lightweight would post falsehoods non-stop. See you are not the only one who could make false statements about an opponent.

Does believing Job 38 mean the earth is not young? Nope - so more of the endless false statements from a crippled mind. That is why his posts are one big snow-ball of errors.

See how the use of mindless ad hominems voids any actual discussion of doctrine?

 

[timtofly]

Your non-stop efforts to put words in my mouth are disgusting. Cite the verse or passage from which you are supporting your view.

Job 38:7
"When the stars of the morning praised me together, and all the children of God rejoiced:"

 

[Van]

Job 38:7
"When the stars of the morning praised me together, and all the children of God rejoiced:"

Thanks
This verse has nothing,repeat nothing, to do with my view of the age of the earth, which is I do not know.
And for you to believe you know how I interpret vague phrases (Stars of the Morning and OT Sons of God) indicates your apparent skill at mind reading.

 

[timtofly]

Thanks
This verse has nothing,repeat nothing, to do with my view of the age of the earth, which is I do not know.
And for you to believe you know how I interpret vague phrases (Stars of the Morning and OT Sons of God) indicates your apparent skill at mind reading.

Well evidently the sons of God did and still do know. Job 38:7 claims that, not me.

I am just saying that is Satan's deception and even the sons of God can be decieved. Unless the Holy Spirit removes the deception. 2 Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he which now withholdeth,shall let till he be taken out of the way."

Paul said,
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first,

Well the deception is here. It seems the Holy Spirit has to remove the deception. I am just letting you know we have been deceived. I cannot do what the Holy Spirit does, that is, remove the deception. If one could change their own mind, it seems some should be willing so their mind can change.

 

[37818]

You are wasting posts, avoiding the topic.

Here is the post with the edited portion bolded.
Calminian said: ↑

Hey, got you back in the first person. Too bad, that third person thing was fun.

And I stand by my statement. You speak in fatalistic terms, while trying to deny it with phony distinctions. And you insist the Bible does not teach young earth.

That's 2 errors in likely a larger snowball of errors.​

More utterly false statements. Only an intellectual lightweight would post falsehoods non-stop. See you are not the only one who could make false statements about an opponent.

Does believing Job 38 mean the earth is not young? Nope - so more of the endless false statements from a crippled mind. That is why his posts are one big snow-ball of errors.

See how the use of mindless ad hominems voids any actual discussion of doctrine?

Ok. It is over the YE OE. "In the beginning . . . ." Genesis 1:1-2, Hebrews 1:10, Psalms 102:25, Job 38:4, . . . Pardon my ignorance, but what ever is actually true, . . .

 

[Van]

Well evidently the sons of God did and still do know. Job 38:7 claims that, not me.

I am just saying that is Satan's deception and even the sons of God can be decieved. Unless the Holy Spirit removes the deception. 2 Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he which now withholdeth,shall let till he be taken out of the way."

Paul said,
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first,

Well the deception is here. It seems the Holy Spirit has to remove the deception. I am just letting you know we have been deceived. I cannot do what the Holy Spirit does, that is, remove the deception. If one could change their own mind, it seems some should be willing so their mind can change.

I think scripture is sufficiently clear we can be sure of Christ's gospel, and we can judge detractors by their fruits. Sowing the seeds of mistrust is a ploy used by manipulators to put people into physiological cells. POW's in Korea were treated to it en mass. Christianity is a team sport.

 

[timtofly]

I think scripture is sufficiently clear we can be sure of Christ's gospel, and we can judge detractors by their fruits. Sowing the seeds of mistrust is a ploy used by manipulators to put people into physiological cells. POW's in Korea were treated to it en mass. Christianity is a team sport.

We are not talking about understanding the Gospel of Christ. We are talking about Genesis 1:31. Is derailing the thread on grounds of pointing out manipulation, not itself a manipulation to get one's way? This is a first that I have seen that posters are equated with Korean mind control guards. In fact, first I have ever heard of physiological cells.

 

[Van]

We are not talking about understanding the Gospel of Christ. We are talking about Genesis 1:31. Is derailing the thread on grounds of pointing out manipulation, not itself a manipulation to get one's way? This is a first that I have seen that posters are equated with Korean mind control guards. In fact, first I have ever heard of physiological cells.

Please stop trying to find fault we me, which leads away from the topic. We can be certain about the truth of the gospel, and fully commit to it. Sowing seeds of uncertainty seems to be an effort to undercut the power of the gospel.